Okulotshiweyo

Lokhu kukhiqizwa ngokwedijithali futhi kungase kuqukathe amaphutha athile

[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is Constructive Voices. Constructive Voices, the podcast for the ukwakhiwa abantu abanezindaba, imibono kanye nezingxoxo zochwepheshe.

[00:00:11] Jackie De Burca: Hi, this is Jackie D Burca here for Constructive Voices. I’m absolutely thrilled to say that this month is Youth Month at Constructive Voices and this has been led by the amazing Keira o’ Brien, who’s a very gifted youth volunteer here at Constructive Voices and she’s going to do a series of four podcasts during the this month, all of them about different subjects that it’s all interrelated to do with organisations and work being done by younger people or medical people. There’s everything is interconnected regarding our society and the work that’s been done today by young people. So the very first interview that we have with Ciara with Damien Queally, who’s the Chief Program Officer at Plan International, Damien, shows how locally led programs, through a strong gender lens and real youth decision making can drive last sustainable change and why right now, in an era of droughts, floods, displacement, hunger, climate resilient, community owned solutions are non negotiable. And now over to you, Ciara.

[00:01:17] Isipikha A: Lawa Amazwi Akhayo.

[00:01:19] U-Ciara O'Brien: Ngingu-Ciara, ngiyisishoshovu sentsha ne-Plan International futhi namuhla ngilapha no-Damien, oyi-Chief Programs Officer ye-Plan International.

Damien, kumnandi kakhulu ukukhuluma nawe namuhla. Ungathanda ukuzethula?

[00:01:34] UDamien Queally: Ngokuqinisekile. Sawubona, Ciara. Yebo. Igama lami ngingu-Damien Queally futhi ngiyisikhulu sezinhlelo ze-Plan International.

Bengisebenzela i-Plan iminyaka eminingana emahhovisi ezwe, emahhovisi ezifunda, ezinhlanganweni zikazwelonke, futhi manje ngisendaweni yomhlaba wonke ehola umnyango obanzi ohlobene nomsebenzi wethu wokuhlela.

[00:01:52] Ciara O'Brien: Amazing. Ungachaza-ke ukuthi zinjani izinhlelo ku-Plan International kubantu abangakezwa ngempela ngenhlangano?

[00:01:59] UDamien Queally: Yebo, impela. Njengokusobala ukuthi ziyahlukahluka kuye komongo, uyazi, noma ngabe usebenza eSouth Sudan ezindaweni ezintula ukudla noma ngabe usebenza e-Togo mayelana nezinhlelo eziningi ezihlobene nentuthuko. Kuyohlale kukhona izici zomongo ohlelweni, kodwa sinohlobo lwezindawo ezinezihloko ezibalulekile esisebenza kuzo futhi ziphathelene nokukhula kwethu kwasebuntwaneni, imfundo, ukuvikelwa kubudlova, impilo yokuzalana ngokocansi namalungelo.

Also livelihoods and youth economic empowerment. And of course then we have a theme called lead, which is our youth engagement, youth participation that cuts across all the different areas that we work in. Then in humanitarian context we also of course draw on those particular areas, but we have other nuances based on food security. So we could be doing food distributions, non food item distributions, cash and voucher related programs, mental health, psychosocial support.

Ngakho-ke ibheka yonke umjikelezo wempilo yengane neyentombazane nokuthi uqinisekisa kanjani ukuthi ubhekana nezinye zezinselele ezibalulekile abahlanganyeli bohlelo ababhekana nazo, kungakhathaliseki ukuthi kusezigabeni zokuqala zokuphila kwabo noma ukuthi izindawo zamathuba ezomnotho empilweni yabo futhi sizame ukuqinisekisa ukuthi sihlanganisa izinhlelo zokusebenza ukubhekana nezidingo ezithile emiphakathini esisebenza kuyo.

[00:03:16] U-Ciara O'Brien: Yebo, nakanjani. Ngiyazi eminye yemikhankaso e-Ireland besiyenza ubumpofu besikhathi nezinto ezinjalo. Futhi-ke uhlangothi lomhlaba wonke luwumshado wezingane owengeziwe. Ngakho kuhle kakhulu, kubanzi kakhulu, kodwa ngokuvamile ngelensi yobulili, ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kulungile ukukusho.

[00:03:28] UDamien Queally: Yebo, cha, ngokuphelele. Futhi-ke siyazi futhi, njengalapho usho ubumpofu besikhathi, enye yezindikimba ezibalulekile esizifaka kuzo, ikakhulukazi umsebenzi wethu ohlobene nobuntu lapho sisabalalisa abantu abasuswa ngendluzula noma ababaleki, ukuthi uma sibanika izinto ezingezona zokudla kanye nezinsiza zokuhlanzeka, ukuthi siqinisekise ukuthi kukhona nemikhiqizo yokuhlanzeka ukuya esikhathini lapho futhi, ngoba ivame ukunganakwa. Ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi ilensi yobulili kuzo zonke izici ezihlukene esizenzayo idinga ukuphuma iqine kakhulu. Uma kungenjalo kungenzeka ukuthi senza impendulo ejwayelekile kodwa siphuthelwe izidingo ezithile zobulili obuhlukile noma ubunikazi kulelo qembu.

[00:04:05] U-Ciara O'Brien: Yebo, nakanjani. Ngakho-ke uhlobo lokugxila kuleyo lensi yobulili, ilensi ehlanganayo. Ingabe lukhona olunye uhlobo lwefilosofi osondela ngalo ukuhlela uhlelo?

[00:04:15] Damien Queally: Yeah, I think one of the key parts is that we want to do it with communities and with the program participants that we’re serving and with local actors as well. Like people will have heard of the localization agenda and that needs to be really driving everything we do. And of course that means different things in different parts of the organization. But when it comes to programming, it’s about ensuring that we are designing the programs with those who are participating in those programs. That it’s not me sitting in the global hub saying, oh, let’s do this program in this community in Togo, when actually that may be not what the community in Togo wants at all.

Ngakho sidinga ngempela ukuletha lokho kuzithoba kulokho esikwenzayo. Futhi nakuba sinamazinga ahlukene obuchwepheshe kuye ngeqhaza lethu, kumayelana nokuqinisekisa ukuthi amazwi emiphakathi, amazwi abantu abasha, amazwi ezingane, amantombazane esisebenza nawo abonisa ukuthi yiziphi izidingo zabo ezithile ngesikhathi kanye nendlela esisebenzisana ngayo nabo kanye nabalingisi bendawo ukubhekana nalezo zidingo futhi bakhe amathuba leyo miphakathi efuna ukuzuza kuwo.

[00:05:18] U-Ciara O'Brien: Yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi abantu abaningi bazokhululeka ukubona leyo ndlela yokubambisana.

It can be a negative perception of humanitarian aid, that it’s this kind of white savior idea or this swooping in at the last minute. But it’s nice to hear the kind of cooperative lens, but also then with the cooperation, it needs to be focused then on global cooperation and global initiatives. And I’m thinking about sustainability more specifically. So how is sustainability approached in your work?

[00:05:48] UDamien Queally: Yebo, cha, iphuzu elihle. Futhi niyazi, emuva nje ucezu white saviorism. Ngicabanga ukuthi lokho bekuyingxenye yobunikazi bezinhlangano eziningi iminyaka eminingi.

You know, in clan, I’m actually quite proud that we only have about, I think it’s 1.5% of our staff are international, like we’re 98.5% are local staff from the communities from the countries that we work in. So I think that’s really important because like they understand the context, they understand the dynamics, the culture, they lived realities. And I think it’s really important that they are the ones that are driving and influencing what we do. And that touches on the sustainability piece as well. Because if it is local actors that you’re working with local partners, if it is with national staff from those countries, then they will be able to continue the work even if plan is no longer there. I think also a key part of our sustainability is when we are working with local partners, that it’s a genuine partnership and it’s not us telling them what they need to do, really working with them, addressing the specific needs in whatever community it may be and that we are passing on skill sets that they may need to be more sustainable themselves. Because you know, the funding environment is really tough and competitive and institutional donors have so many rules and compliance requirements that if you’re a small local actor, it’s almost impossible for you to be able to adhere to all of them.

Ngakho-ke i-value add yethu kulokho kubambisana futhi singasiza kanjani ukuqinisa labo abalingisi bendawo ezindaweni abangase bakudinge lokho kusekelwa ukuze nabo, uyazi, baqale ukufuna ezinye izinhlobo zoxhaso ukuze bakwazi ukusimama. Ngicabanga ukuthi enye ingxenye yalokho kusimamisa iwuhlobo oluthile njengoba usebenza nabalingisi bendawo kanye nemiphakathi yendawo futhi nabantu abasha ezinhlelweni benezabo, uyazi, ukuba nabo kusho ukuthi bazoqhubeka ngemuva kwalokho.

Futhi uyazi, thina, akufanele sibe semphakathini iminyaka engama-30, 40 ngoba bese imiphakathi incike kithi kunokuba, uyazi, lokhu ukuzethemba okudingayo ukuzakha. Kodwa futhi ohulumeni basekhaya kanye nohulumeni bezifunda abangabanikazi bezidingo zabo zentuthuko kanye nokuziphendulela emiphakathini nakubantu. Basebenza nabo. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi kukhona ezinye zezingxenye ezibalulekile zalokho kusimama. Yilokho ubunikazi bendawo, ukusebenzelana nabaxhasi bendawo, ukusebenzelana nohulumeni wasekhaya, ukuqinisa umphakathi wendawo ukuze ukwazi ukuqhubeka nokukhulisa umsebenzi ebesifaka isandla kuwo.

[00:08:16] U-Ciara O'Brien: Yebo, leyo lens mayelana nokuhlonza imbangela futhi ngiyisishoshovu noma ngiwummeli noma ngingumuntu othuthukisa umphakathi wami, ngicabanga ukuthi ibaluleke kakhulu. Futhi ubona kakhulu kubantu abavele bayeke kulolu hlobo lwezinhlelo ngoba abazizwa nje ukuthi baxhumene nabo noma batshale imali kubo. Futhi kuyajabulisa ukubona lolo hlobo, angazi, ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kugxila ekuxhumaniseni abantu neqembu kakhulu ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi abantu abangahle bacabange, oh, empeleni ngingumholi kulolu hlelo lokusebenza lomphakathi ukuze ngiqhube iphrojekthi yami noma nginephrojekthi ethile.

Ingabe unaso iseluleko kumuntu ofana nalowo ohlela umkhankaso omncane womphakathi?

[00:09:01] UDamien Queally: Yebo. Futhi sibone izibonelo eziningi zalokho.

One thing I like about our sponsorship programming is it allows us to stay for a longer period of time in communities and it’s more flexible in terms of adapting to the needs of what the communities are identifying. And we have seen some of the people who have been part of our sponsorship program who are now mayors of their town, they have set up little enterprises and business and they’re hiring people into their business and creating new employment.

Sibonile emisebenzini yethu yentsha yezamabhizinisi lapho, uyazi, siye seseka mayelana namakhono athile ebhizinisi namakhono ezezimali kanye namakhono amabhizinisi sabe sesinikeza uxhaso oluthile lwembewu kwamanye amaqembu afuna ukuqhubeka ngaleso sikhathi asungule amabhizinisi awo amancane abese ekhula futhi bathole futhi baqashe abantu abaningi emphakathini futhi babe izibonelo, uyazi, kwabaningi emphakathini. Futhi ngiyazi ukuthi sizothinta ingane kusenesikhathi futhi sishade ngenkani kancane. Kodwa njengoba, uyazi, lapho sisebenze khona nabesifazane abasebasha futhi sibavulele lelo thuba lezomnotho, empeleni kukhombisa umphakathi ukuthi, uyazi, ukuba umakoti akuyona inketho yowesifazane kuphela. Empeleni bangaba abaholi bebhizinisi, bangaba izishoshovu zezenhlalakahle, bangaba osomabhizinisi bezenhlalakahle. Ngakho-ke ukutshala imali emfundweni yabo nokubagcina esikoleni kubaluleke kakhulu.

Kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi ngokwezeluleko, uyazi, into eyodwa iwukwazi ngempela ukuthi iyiphi inkinga ozama ukuyixazulula noma iyiphi inkinga ozama ukuyilungisa nokuthi ithinta iqembu elingaphakathi kulowo mphakathi noma lowo mkhakha ofuna ukusebenza kuwo.

Ngicabanga ukuthi enye into ukuletha labo abambisene nabo futhi bahlanganyele, ngoba noma ngabe wenzani, bayohlala kukhona abangabazayo abazobe bephikisana nakho. Futhi ikakhulukazi kulesi sikhathi senkundla yezokuxhumana, lapho ulwazi olungahlosiwe luvame kakhulu kangangokuba kubalulekile ukuthi ube namazwi aqinile lapho ukuze ugcine ithuba liphila.

Ngicabanga-ke ukubona ukuthi akhona yini amathuba okuqeqeshwa nabanye okungenzeka ukuthi bake bakwenza lokho ngaphambili abantu abake basebenza emabhizinisini omphakathi.

Uyazi, kunezinkampani ezingavuma ukuvolontiya isikhathi ukuze zisekele ezindaweni lapho umuntu angase adinge khona lokho kusekelwa futhi, uyazi, ukubenza bahlanganyele futhi, uyazi, basize ngezinye zezici eziyinselele kakhulu mhlawumbe zokusungula ibhizinisi lezenhlalo nokwenza omunye umsebenzi kanye nokubona ukuthi singayisebenzisa kanjani, uyazi, inkundla yezokuxhumana kanye nedijithali ukuze uzuze.

Ngakho, yebo, ngicabanga. Bese ubheka amanye amabhizinisi omphakathi okungenzeka ukuthi asevele ekhona futhi ufunda kuwo futhi anohlobo oluthile lomphakathi wokuzijwayeza ngoba akekho oseke wazi konke. Futhi lapho senza uhlobo lokwabelana nokuzibandakanya futhi engicabanga ukuthi, kungasiza ngempela futhi ukusekela omunye umsebenzi, owaziyo, amabhizinisi amancane okungenzeka azama ukuwenza.

Futhi sinohlelo oluhle kakhulu lokusungula. Angazi noma uke wezwa ngakho. Ngiyaqiniseka ukuthi ukwenzile. Empeleni, yi-Equality Accelerator, uyazi, lapho sinikeza khona uhlobo oluncane lwezimali emaqenjini entsha nokwenza izinhlelo abafuna ukuzenza emiphakathini yabo. Futhi lezo zinhlelo, zihlongoziwe yinoma yiliphi iqembu lentsha okungenzeka libe yilo. Ibuyekezwa ngabantu abasha, futhi intsha ithatha isinqumo mayelana nendlela yokwaba uxhaso. Futhi imithetho ezungezile ilula kakhulu futhi ayihambisani njengoba bekungaba uhlobo lomnikeli wesikhungo. Futhi, eminyakeni eyisithupha noma eyisikhombisa edlule, sabele ama-euro angaphezu kwesigidi njengengxenye yalolo hlelo. Ngakho-ke kukhona nalolo hlobo lwamathuba lapho futhi, uma abantu bewazi nokuthi bangangena kanjani kuwo.

[00:12:30] Ciara O’Brien: Yeah, I know the Youth Advisory Panel in Ireland, we have little grants, micro grants that we can give out. It’s about €500. But part of that then is focusing on getting the young people to make the budget and make the plan and book the rooms and book the spaces and know how to do that. So it’s upskilling as well as actually running the social initiative too. So it’s nice to see the kind of, I don’t know, getting that value worth out of that donation, I suppose, because you’re both Upskilling people who will make a change in the future. But you’re also making change now, which is nice to see.

Futhi-ke njengomunye walabo bantu abasha ababambe iqhaza ku-Plan, ngifuna ukukubuza mayelana nokuthi abantu abasha bafakwa kanjani emandleni okuthatha izinqumo ku-Plan International ngoba sike sakhuluma kancane ngokuthi abantu abasha bangaba kanjani abagqugquzeli boshintsho noma bangaziqhuba kanjani izinhlelo zabo zenhlalo, noma bangazisungulela awabo amabhizinisi nanoma yini efana naleyo, noma nje babe wusizo ngokuvamile futhi babe yingxenye yomphakathi wabo. Kodwa ikakhulukazi mayelana namandla okwenza izinqumo, lokho kusebenza kanjani kubantu abasha bakwa-Plan International?

[00:13:39] UDamien Queally: Yebo, umbuzo omuhle lowo. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi yinto esiye savela kuyo eminyakeni emihlanu, eyisikhombisa edlule. Ingenye yezindawo ezizizwa nginentshisekelo ngayo futhi enye yezindawo, ngicabanga ukuthi senze inqubekelaphambili enkulu enhlanganweni ngoba besikwenza lokhu phambilini futhi bekuwuphawu. Uletha abantu abasha abayi-15 emhlanganweni wethu omkhulu webhodi lokuphatha futhi bazoba nomhlangano oyisithunzi eceleni futhi uyazi, kuzoba nokufundwa kwezinye zezingxoxo zabo bese wonke umuntu endizela ekhaya futhi kungaba njalo. Futhi niyazi, ngezwa ukuthi lokho bekungajulile futhi bekungasho lutho. Nakuba kule minyaka embalwa edlule sibe, uyazi, eziningi, ngisho nokukhuluma nje ngesizinda somhlaba, sinenqwaba yamaphrojekthi abalulekile esilethulayo ahlobene nohlobo lomsebenzi wethu wocwaningo, ahlobene nomthelela wethu obanzi womhlaba wonke kanye nokumela, okuhlobene nokukhula kwethu kwezenhlalakahle, uxhaso lwethu lwezinhlobo ezilandelayo, ukuvuselela kanye nenani labanye futhi. Futhi sinabo abamele intsha abahlezi ekomitini eliqondisa lezo zindawo ezibalulekile. Futhi bayilungu elilinganayo kulelo komiti eliqondisayo, babelana ngemicabango yabo, imibono yabo, izinselele zabo futhi basiza ukuqhubekisela phambili iphrojekthi kunoma iyiphi iphrojekthi abahileleke kuyo. Ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kube yinto enhle ngempela. Futhi ngiwabonile lawo mazwi ethonya okwenzeka ngokulandelayo ohlelweni oluthile.

Siphinde futhi, ngicabanga ukuthi kwakuyiminyaka emibili edlule umhlangano wamaLungu, okuyisigungu sethu esiphezulu esilawulayo okokuqala ngqa, sabe izihlalo ezimbili ezisemthethweni kwabamele intsha abanegunya lokuthatha izinqumo namalungelo okuvota, okwakungakaze kwenziwe ngaphambili emlandweni wethu weminyaka engama-80 ukuze sibe nalawo malungelo okuvota. Futhi baqaphela kakhulu, usihlalo walelo qembu uqaphela kakhulu ukuletha lawo mazwi kuyo yonke imihlangano futhi aqinisekise ukuthi ayazwakala nokuthi imibono yawo iyabiwa futhi athathwe njengezenzo. Uma kuyisenzo, uma amaphuzu ethambekele esenzweni futhi acatshangelwa ngempela abaphathi njengoba Siqhubekela phambili.

Ikomidi lezinhlelo, liyikomiti elincane leBhodi Yezizwe Ngezizwe. Baphinde balethe amalungu amabili eqembu lentsha kulezo zingxoxo. Futhi ngiyazi ukuthi usihlalo walelo qembu, okungu-Rabia, uhlale ezimisele kakhulu ukuthi, uyazi, uma sethula noma yimuphi umsebenzi wethu, ukuthi siletha amazwi abantu abasha abayingxenye yalowo msebenzi ukuze bakwazi ukwabelana ngolwazi lwabo mayelana nokuthi yini esebenza kahle, yini engasebenzi kahle, kanye nokuba neyakho. Yebo, izwi labo linomthelela omkhulu kulokho amakomiti akwenzayo. Futhi-ke ngike ngabona kuwo wonke amahhovisi ezwe lapho banamaqembu abeluleka ngentsha. Abanye babo bahlala emihlanganweni yethimba labaphathi njalo ngekota.

Abanye babo babambe iqhaza ekwakhiweni kwamasu, ekubuyekezweni kwamasu, ekwakhiweni kohlelo nasekuklanyweni kwephrojekthi.

Ngakho kwenzeka uhlobo lwezendlalelo eziningi. Kodwa mhlawumbe, uyazi, emuva kuwe, njengoba ushilo, ube yingxenye yalokhu naku-Plan Ireland. Njengokuthi, ukuthole kanjani ku-Plan Ireland? Futhi ngikholwa ukuthi empeleni ukwelinye lamakomidi amancane ebhodi e-Plan Ireland futhi.

[00:16:35] U-Ciara O'Brien: Yebo, yebo, ngisekomidini elincane lokumaketha nokuqongelela imali. Futhi omunye wabangane bami abanekhono kakhulu futhi ohlakaniphile usebhodini elinamalungelo aphelele okuvota, okungukuthi, okuhle kakhulu ukukubona, okuthakazelisayo kakhulu. Futhi kuhle. Kumnandi ukuzibandakanya. Kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi abantu abaningi, abantu bazobe becabanga lapho, lapho bezwa lokhu. Uzobe ucabanga, ngani? Liyini iphuzu? Umzamo omkhulu, ushintsho oluningi, isikhathi esiningi, imali encane, nakuba singamavolontiya, kuthatha ikhono eliningi ukwenza ukuvikela, konke lokhu. Ngakho-ke ithini impendulo yakho yokuthi kungani?

[00:17:13] UDamien Queally: Cishe bengizobuyisela umbuzo kuwe. Kungani ukwenza?

Ngokombono wami, ngicabanga ukuthi kungani.

From Plan’s perspective, the why is that if we don’t bring young voices into those spaces, then we’re making decisions that impact those young people without actually really knowing if that’s the right decision. So if you haven’t those young voices coming in, whether it’s into your project design or whether it’s into your country leadership team, or whether it’s into your national organization or board or key projects, if you’re not bringing those voices in, then you’re kind of going, you know, with one eye closed, you know, and like, whilst your intent may be good, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re responding to something that’s most critical for young people.

And, you know, I do believe that, you know, you shouldn’t do something for someone without Bringing them with you to understand what they actually want from that. So from an organization perspective, I see the huge importance in it. But I guess as somebody who is then on the. Who is that youth voice in the group?

Ingabe lokho kuzwakala noma kungani wenza? Ngoba kuyisikhathi esiningi futhi kuthatha amandla amaningi.

[00:18:27] U-Ciara O'Brien: Yebo, kube yizinsuku ezimbalwa ezinhle, ezimbalwa ezinhle ezigcwele kule minyaka embalwa edlule futhi kuthatha umsebenzi omningi wokulungiselela ukufika kuleyo mihlangano ethatha isikhashana. Kodwa yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi imayelana nentando yeningi.

Ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kungaba njengempendulo yami elula ukuthi wushintsho lwezenhlalo, kodwa uguquko lwezenhlalo kufanele lube olwawo wonke umuntu. Ngicabanga ukuthi okushoyo mayelana nokuthi kubalulekile kuwe kuyiqiniso kakhulu. Ngokuhlangenwe nakho kwami, unabantu abaneminyaka engu-30 kuphela, kodwa abayitholi ngoba ishintsha ngokushesha kakhulu ngezinkundla zokuxhumana namaphrojekthi ahlukene. Ngikhumbula umhlangano wami wokuqala ngqa wohlelo.

Sachazela abaxhumanisi ukuthi i-disco yentsha iyini futhi ifana nohlobo lwalo. Yebo, uyazi, njengohlobo lwemithelela yobulili kanye nohlobo oluthambile lwezinhlobo zodlame olusekelwe ebulilini ezazenzeka kulawa ma-disco entsha lapho sineminyaka engu-12 noma 13. Futhi abaxhumanisi babengakaze bezwe ngalezi zinto ngoba zazizintsha kakhulu. Futhi ngisho nomkhankaso wamanje womshado wezingane, ukubona zonke izici zokuxhumana zenhlalo emshadweni wezingane, okuyinto mina mathupha engangingakaze ngiyilindele, okuyinto, ethakazelisayo kakhulu, kodwa ifika ngempela kuntando yeningi. Futhi othile angase angabi uchwepheshe mayelana nezincwadi, kodwa angase abe uchwepheshe mayelana nesipiliyoni. Ngakho-ke iwusizo futhi iyathakazelisa kakhulu.

[00:19:56] UDamien Queally: Yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi iphuzu elihle kakhulu lelo. Ishintsha ngokushesha okukhulu futhi uma ungenabo abantu abalungile abahililekile kulezo zingxoxo, ukhuluma ngento okungenzeka ukuthi yayiyinkinga kimi ngesikhathi ngineminyaka engu-30, kodwa ehluke ngokuphelele kumuntu onaleyo minyaka manje noma 20 noma izinto ezinjalo. Futhi ngeminyaka yezinkundla zokuxhumana kanye, uyazi, amandla amaningi anobuthi laphaya, niyazi, ahlehlisa ngempela amalungelo obulili nokuhlangana kanye nakho konke okunye. Njengoba kunjalo.

Uma ungakayiboni, uma, uma uyibuka ngaphandle kuphela, awazi ngempela ukuthi lokho kusho ukuthini ngempela nokuthi uzizwa kanjani. Ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi ukuba nabantu abakuzwa lokho futhi bakuphile futhi babhekane nakho kuzokwenza noma yimuphi umsebenzi owenzayo ube nomthelela futhi ube nenjongo ngoba empeleni wenza lokho okuhambisana nabantu abakuzwayo.

[00:20:45] U-Ciara O'Brien: Yebo. Ukhulume kafushane ngokubuyiselwa emuva kwamalungelo. Ngicabanga ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi indima yezikhungo zamazwe ngamazwe, ngisho nokuba khona kwazo manje sekuyimibuzo kaningi ngokuhlehliswa kwamalungelo, kodwa futhi nokwanda kwamaqembu aphikisana namalungelo emhlabeni jikelele. Ngakho-ke ama-anti feminists ayasho, futhi asho lokho, bheka, ngempela izinhlangano zenzani lapha futhi ingabe zikhona ngempela ezikwenzayo? Ingabe ziwusizo? Bamosha imali? Ingabe i-bureaucracy? Ngakho-ke uthini kubantu abangakwesokunxele nangakwesokudla kwe-spectrum yezombangazwe abangabaza indima yezinhlangano zamazwe ngamazwe futhi abathanda izinhlangano ezisiza umphakathi ngobubanzi?

[00:21:31] UDamien Queally: Yebo, sengathi yisikhathi esishintshayo futhi njengoba sishilo ekuqaleni, njengakule minyaka yedijithali, izinto eziningi zingashiwo ngaphandle kokuziphendulela ngazo nhlobo, noma ziyiqiniso noma zingamanga. Njengoba sesibone izitatimende eziningi ezingamanga zivela ezinkundleni zokuxhumana ezivela kubaholi bezepolitiki emazweni anamandla kangangokuthi, uyazi, bavele baphonse inselelo okuyiqiniso.

Futhi lokho kuyakhathaza. Ngicabanga ukuthi kuseneningi elibalulekile eliqaphela ngempela ukuthi ubumbano lomhlaba wonke oluqinile lubalulekile futhi luyisihluthulelo futhi yikho okusenza sibe abantu. Futhi uyazi, ngenkathi kune-ajenda ekhulayo yobuzwe eyenzekayo emazweni amaningi futhi njengoba ushilo, abaphikisana nabokufika kanye nakho konke okunye, uyazi, ngicabanga lapho, kubaluleke kakhulu ukuthi kube nemilayezo elula kakhulu ephumayo mayelana nokuthi izinhlangano zenzani zisebenzisa ulimi oluthinta abantu ngabanye ngezinye izikhathi kuma-INGO, babamba iqhaza kakhulu emkhakheni wethu kanye namagama ethu kanye nolimi lwethu lobuchwepheshe. Futhi uma ngikhuluma nomama wami.

[00:22:37] U-Ciara O'Brien: Uma ngikhuluma ngezinhlangano zamazwe ngamazwe okungezona zikahulumeni.

[00:22:41] Damien Queally: Exactly. I think if I’m talking to my mum about intersectional property, she’d be kind of going, what do you mean? Or if I talk to my mom about, you know, there are so many people that because of climate change, largely driven by global north, is leading to, you know, more droughts, more floods, more displacements, more hunger. You know, these are real things that are happening in the lives of individuals. And if we have a means to help support those lives and help communities rebuild after a disaster or after flooding or whatever it might be, then, you know, we have a, there’s a humanity within us that should actually really support that and do what we can to help that. Of course, it doesn’t mean we need to forget people at home as well. We have to make sure we have, you know, programs at home that address, you know, vulnerable households and vulnerable individuals and the needs that are there.

Futhi. Kodwa kimina akusikhona okunye. Kufana nokuthi siyakudinga, sidinga ukwenza kokubili futhi sidinga ukuthola lokho kulinganisela kahle bese sidinga nje ukuxhumana nalolo shintsho futhi sixoxe indaba.

Ngoba, uyazi, sidinga izinkomba eziyinkimbinkimbi ukuya kubanikeli bethu ukukhombisa umthelela walokho esikwenzayo. Yindaba ehlukile okudingeka siyitshele umphakathi jikelele. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi ukubonisa lezo zindaba zangempela, njengokuthusayo esikubona eGaza akukholakali nhlobo. Futhi maningi kakhulu amazwe anezinselelo eziningi. IHaiti kanye namaqembu ezigebengu athatha izintambo kanye nodlame locansi, ukudlwengulwa kwezingane, amantombazane, kwabesifazane. Uyazi, izimpilo zangempela ezithintwayo. Futhi uma umuntu engakwazi ukufaka isandla ngokuthile, kungakhathaliseki ukuthi kungenxa yokuthonya uhulumeni wakhe noma ngokuhlinzeka ngezimali ezinhlanganweni zendawo namaphrojekthi ukuze kubhekwane nezinye zalezi zidingo, lokho kuyingxenye eyinhloko yalokho isintu esiyikho. Futhi yilokho kubumbana engicabanga ukuthi sidinga ngempela ukuqhubeka sibambelele kukho.

Ngoba ekugcineni, yizwe elilodwa futhi sonke sixhumene.

[00:24:31] Ciara O’Brien: Yeah, definitely. And that connection is so much more prevalent now in recent years. Like you say with, with Gaza, we’re all watching from our phones and we wouldn’t have, wouldn’t have had that in previous conflicts and previous genocides. So it’s vital that we’re not only just seeing what’s happening, but we’re doing something about it, or at least trying to do something about it. And I love to see Plan International specifically have different kind of subgroups that kind of work together to share information and knowledge. So I know some of our technology came from the Plan Canada office. We have a social media program which we share with the PLAN Philippines and the Plan Liberia offices. So that kind of knowledge sharing is so interesting, but it’s also, it’s just so relevant given that we’re using the same Internet that Plan Canada is using. So why would we not share the software?

Ngiyawuthanda lowo mlayezo jikelele. Bese kuthi-ke uma sikhuluma ngalezi zinkinga zomhlaba wonke, udaba lomhlaba jikelele iPLAN egxile kulo kulokhu, kule nyanga ikakhulukazi, Okthoba 2025, ukushada kwezingane. Leso yisihloko sombiko we-State of the World Girls Report walo nyaka. Futhi umkhankasi kanye noSuku Lomhlaba Lwentombazane lugxile kulokho. Ngakho ungathanda ukutshela.

Tshela abantu ngodaba lokushada kwezingane nokuthi izinhlangano zamazwe ngamazwe zibhekana kanjani nalokhu ngale ndlela yokuthi sikhulume nomphakathi jikelele ukuze abantu baqonde esikwenzayo?

[00:26:05] UDamien Queally: Yebo, yisihloko esibaluleke kakhulu futhi senza umsebenzi omningi kulokhu, ikakhulukazi esifundeni sethu sase-Asia kanye nezwekazi lonke lase-Afrika, ngoba, njengokuthi, ukusabalala kuphezulu kakhulu.

And you know, I have 14 nieces and nephews. And you know, when I got to be talking to some of my family about this and just saying, you know, if you look at Maureen, one of my nieces, she’s 14, saying if she was in Niger, she could be married now. Yep. And they’re kind of going, what? No, that makes no sense. Like she’s only a child, she’s just started secondary school. And they’re going, yeah, but that’s the case for millions of girls every year. And if we don’t take more urgent action on child and early enforced marriage and union, we will see another 150 million girls married before the age of 18 by 2030.

Yinqwaba yamantombazane ephila ngokuphonswa emoyeni nje. Futhi ocwaningweni esilwenzile, njengamantombazane angaphezu kwengxenye yesine esikhulume nawo ayekade esenganeni, emshadweni noma esenyunyaneni, ayengenakho ukukhetha kulokho.

Leso kwakuyisinqumo esenziwa egameni labo ngabazali babo noma umnakekeli noma noma ngabe ngubani.

And sometimes it’s down to poverty because they don’t see any other option for them. Or sometimes they’re saying, oh, well, you know, she’s a teenager now, if we don’t marry her, she may get pregnant and then nobody want to marry her and she’ll bring shame on the family or. Because as we were saying earlier, if they don’t see any other option for that young woman in society, then they’re saying, well, she’s going to be a wife anyway, so why not just do it now rather than waiting? And, you know, they see that as just kind of culture and social norms. So I think it’s really important that, you know, we’re having those conversations in communities around the importance of allowing girls to stay in school, of those economic opportunity aspects of their rights, you know, because the 15 countries we did the study in, the national laws are all saying child marriage is illegal. But there’s one thing having a law, it’s the implementation of that that is so important.

Futhi imayelana nokuqinisekisa ukuthi ukuqaliswa kufinyelela ezindaweni ezisezingeni eliphansi. Kumayelana nokuxoxisana nalabo baholi besigodi, abaholi bezenkolo, othisha, abazali, imiphakathi ngobubanzi ekukhipheni umkhuba olimazayo. Ukuthi lokhu kokubili kusuka empilweni yengane ngokwayo, kodwa futhi kunezinkinga ezinkulu mayelana nempilo yengqondo, mayelana nezokwelapha, ukukhulelwa kwentsha kanye nezingozi eziza nakho konke lokho. Amantombazane amaningi ayekulowo mshado ngempoqo kanye nezinyunyana ayethi lincane kakhulu igunya lokuthatha izinqumo ekhaya. Nokho yibona abanakekeli abakhulu.

Abakutholi ukwesekwa emphakathini ngoba sebethathwa njengempahla yale ndoda futhi yiyona ezobhekela bona.

Abaningi babo baye baveza indlela abaye babhekana ngayo nobudlova basekhaya futhi akukho sizathu sangempela sokuba benze noma yini ngalokho. Ngakho-ke kimina, kukuzo zonke izigaba zaleyo mpilo yengane nomuntu osemusha engicabanga ukuthi ibaluleke ngempela ukuthi, uyazi, thina, sizama ukuqinisekisa ukuthi abashadile abancane, ukuthi imiphakathi ibone amandla nethuba kanye namalungelo alabo bantu futhi sibheke kuyo yonke imfundo yethu nempilo yethu yokuzalana ngokocansi kanye namalungelo kanye nohlelo lwethu lokuvikela kanye nezinhlelo zethu zokuqashwa kwentsha kanye nobushoshovu bethu bentsha, bubangela umsuka wolwazi lwakho, futhi sikhulume ngakho konke mayelana nawe. Ngoba angifuni ukubona umshana wami oneminyaka engu-14 eshadile. Ngaphezu kwalokho, uyazi, othile eNiger noma eNdiya angathanda ukubona umshana wakhe oneminyaka engu-14 eshadile.

[00:29:42] U-Ciara O'Brien: Yebo, kunjalo impela, kuyindlela enhle kakhulu yokuyibeka kwesinye isikhathi kuthatha ukukhomba ingane eseduze ukuze empeleni isebenze uzwela lwabantu.

Futhi-ke futhi ngezinye izikhathi uzwela lungase luntuleke kancane. Futhi usho. Ngoba kunjalo.

Kukhona ingxenye enkulu uma kuqhathaniswa namantombazane athi abenokusho okuthile noma ukukhetha okuthile kulokhu. Kodwa uma ucabanga bangase. Okunye ebengicabanga ukuthi kungijabulisa kakhulu ukuthi amantombazane ayethi aqome ukushada namasoka awo ukuze abazali bawo bawashadise ngemva konyaka nomunye umuntu noma sebenesoka bese abazali bawo bewaphoqa ukuthi ashade nalelo soka ngoba kuyihlazo ukuba nalobu budlelwano obungakahleleki. Kodwa futhi ke ngicabanga ngami 14, 15 futhi ngicabanga uma kufanele ushade nomuntu wokuqala ukuphola , futhi empeleni, yebo, ngakhetha ukuphola labo bantu, kodwa ngiyajabula kakhulu manje ukuthi angishadile nabo. Futhi yilolo hlobo lwalolo zwelo into ekhona, bangase, bangase bathi ukukhetha. Lokho akusho ukuthi empeleni kuwukukhetha. Lokho akusho ukuthi empeleni yilokho bona, abangakukhetha ngaphandle kwalezi zimo.

Umbiko ujabulisa kakhulu ukuwufunda futhi ngizowuxhumanisa encazelweni ye-podcast ukuze abantu bakwazi ukuyozifundela.

[00:31:07] UDamien Queally: Ngicabanga ukuthi wenza iphuzu elihle lapho ngokusho kwabanye babo abangenile kulo ngoba bekuzikhethele. Ngicabanga ukuthi iphuzu elibalulekile kulokho futhi ukuthi, uyazi, uma uneminyaka engu-15, 16. Ukuqonda ukuthi kusho ukuthini ukushada nemithelela yalokho nokuthi ukuphila ngokuvamile kudlala kanjani kuleso sikhala, ngicabanga ukuthi kubaluleke kakhulu. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi ingxenye yaleyo mfundo ingeyabantu abasha ukuba baqonde izingozi zokukhulelwa besebancane, yimaphi amalungelo abazoba nawo kuleyo nyunyana uma sebekuleyo nyunyana, yiziphi izinkululeko abayoba nazo. Bazokwazi yini ukuqhubeka nesikole? Ngoba abaningi bayeka isikole ngesikhathi beshada. Babengenakuzikhethela. Ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi ukuqonda okushiwo yikho kuyingxenye ebalulekile yalokho okudingeka sikwenze okwengeziwe ngakho.

[00:31:54] U-Ciara O'Brien: Yebo, nakanjani. Futhi into eyayithakazelisa embikweni ukuthi amantombazane amaningi okwaxoxwa nawo ayehlukanisile, futhi leyo yinto ongayicabangi ngempela. Njengokuthi, abantu cishe bayobe bezwile ngomshado wezingane njengendaba yobulungiswa bezenhlalo, kodwa isehlukaniso sezingane siyinto esingayenzi ngempela. Ngempela ungakhulumi.

Ngakho noma benjalo. Uma bekwizinyunyana ezingahlelekile noma ezinyunyana ezisemthethweni, ingabe ikhona indlela yokuthi baphume kuzo? Ngoba uma izwe linezinyunyana ezisemthethweni kuphela kusukela eminyakeni engu-18, awukwazi ukuhlukanisa uneminyaka engu-17.

Ngakho kunjalo. Kuyathakazelisa ngempela, futhi umbiko kufanele nakanjani ufundwe, ikakhulukazi ezindabeni zabantu. Kuyathandeka ukuzwa. Akuthandeki, kodwa kuyaqabula ukuzwa amantombazane ngokwawo kunokulandisa okuphathelene nezimpilo zawo angasakwazi ukuzilawula.

Yebo. Ngakho-ke yimuphi omunye umlayezo wabalaleli njengoba siqeda i-podcast yethu yanamuhla?

[00:32:54] UDamien Queally: Ngiyacabanga.

Ngicabanga ukuthi kubaluleke kakhulu ukuthi sonke sisebenzise izwi lethu ngokuhle nokuthi thina, ngeminyaka yemithombo yezokuxhumana kanye ne-disinformation, sidinga ukungabaza konke esikubonayo nesikufundayo futhi sihlole iqiniso ngangokunokwenzeka, futhi singalahlekelwa yilolo buntu nobumbano lomhlaba wonke, ngoba yilokho okusenza sibe abantu futhi yikho okwenza umhlaba ube indawo engcono. Usuku olulodwa ngesikhathi.

[00:33:22] UCiara O'Brien: Yebo, ngiyavumelana nalokho. Ngicabanga ukuthi uzwela kanye nelukuluku kuyindlela eya phambili, futhi lokho kudinga ukusebenzisana.

[00:33:29] UDamien Queally: Yebo, impela.

[00:33:30] U-Ciara O'Brien: Kulungile. Siyabonga kakhulu, kakhulu ngokuhlanganyela nathi namuhla.

[00:33:34] UDamien Queally: Ngiyabonga, Kira. Kuhle ukukhuluma nawe.

[00:33:36] Isipikha A: Lawa amazwi akhayo.

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