I-S4, E5: I-Decarbonising Heat noDkt. Alex Mellor we-Naked Energy

Okulotshiweyo Okukhiqizwe Ngedijithali

[00:00:00] UJackie De Burca: Sawubona, lo nguJackie De Burca waMazwi Akhayo. NginoDkt. Alex Mellor onguMqondisi Wezobunjiniyela eNaked Energy. Manje usephishekele uthando lwakhe lwempilo yonke lwamandla elanga. Ugunyaze amalungelo obunikazi amabili kanye namaphepha angama-21 ashicilelwe kubuchwepheshe be-PVT, i-PV esebenza kahle kakhulu, amasistimu egridi ezindaweni zasemakhaya kanye ne-PV yamandla omkhathi, kanye nencwadi yamaseli elanga e-quantum. Manje sengiyakwazi. Ngaphambi kokukwamukela, ngingasho ukuthi ngike ngahlala endaweni yasemakhaya enesistimu yegridi, ngakho-ke ngingathanda ukwazi okwengeziwe ngalokho. Kodwa ake uzethule nje, Alex, okokuqala, ngicela.

[00:00:48] Dr Alex Mellor: Sure. Hi Jackie. Really, really nice to meet you and thanks so much for having me on your on your podcast. My name’s Alex Mellor. I’ve been a lifelong environmentalist and always had a passion for science and technology. Sort of something of an activist, even when I was back at school. And then when I went to university, I realized that if I chose the right course, I had the opportunity to marry my passions for science, technology and environmentalism. So I studied mathematics and physics with a view to going into renewable energy. I chose to have a year in industry as part of my degree course. And if anyone here is thinking of going to university, they offer a year in industry. I’d really recommend it. It’s a really good way to get started, particularly if they let you choo. Where to go. I found a small PV cell research and manufacture facility in Northumberland in the north of England and I went to did my year internship there. It was called NAREC at the time, they’re now called Solar Capture Technologies. I had a really great experience there and I thought I love research, I love, I love PV solar energy. So I found a PhD in Madrid where I could go and work on high efficiency PV cells, looking particularly at really high efficiency concepts. You know, how to get to 50% electrical efficiency using kind of optical light trapping and device physics. Really enjoyed that. I became a research associate. I then went to Imperial College where I was a research fellow looking at other novel concepts in PV cells. And I started getting interested in PVT and particularly optical coatings for pvt. At that time I was lucky enough to meet Naked Energy where I’m working at the moment. They had a joint project with Imperial College. We worked together on that project and I like the company, the company obviously liked me, so I went to work with them. I’ve been at Naked Energy now for six years. I’m now director of Engineering, I didn’t start that way, but I started working on the product development. We went into commercial phase. So I very quickly became part of a fledgling sales team, set up a kind of a customer journey so we could identify the right kinds of users of solar, heat and PVT technology and take them through a journey. They could see if our technology was right for us. We then hired a proper commercial team, which I was glad of, so I could go back into the technical area. And I now work on a development of the product, a development of our design and monitoring software, and also integration of our technology into building. So that’s a, that’s a kind of brief introduction into my career, which is excellent, Alex.

[00:03:08] UJackie De Burca: Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi kwabanye babalaleli bethu, enye i-jargon oyisebenzisile izoba kancane, kulungile, lokho kuzwakala kuthakazelisa ngempela, kodwa bekuyini lokho? Ngakho-ke njengoba siqhubeka, ngicabanga ukuthi ingxoxo yethu, mhlawumbe sizame ukuyifaka njengolimi lomuntu ovamile kokunye okushilo. I-Naked Energy, kusobala ukuthi iyaziwa ukuthi ihamba phambili ekusungulweni kwe-solar. Ungakwazi ukwabelana ngomgomo wenkampani, u-Alex, nokuthi yini ozizwa uyihlukanisa endaweni yamandla avuselelekayo?

[00:03:38] Dr Alex Mellor: Absolutely. So we’re really focused on decarbonization of heat. So, you know, when a lot of people think of renewable energy, they’re really thinking of renewable electricity. Yeah. So if you think of wind power, pv, solar power, these are ways of generating electricity from, from the wind and the sun. But actually most of the energy we end up using, we don’t use as electricity, we use it as heat. Electricity and transport, you know, those are the three main ones. And about 50% of primary energy, we end up using it as heat. So that heats to heat, you know, the spaces that we occupy. So at home or at work, it’s to heat the hot water that we, we bathe and shower in and use for sanitation, and it’s to heat industrial processes so, you know, to make the things that we use. So about 50% of primary energy and therefore of greenhouse gas emissions are to generate some sort of heating or cooling. So that’s really what we’re, we’re aimed at. And we do that through our solar products, which generate solar heat and solar electricity. So we’re attacking both the heat and electricity with our solar products. What, what sets us apart? I mean, we, perhaps less usually for a solar heat technology, we really aim at kind of large heat users. So it’s, it’s commercial and industrial buildings rather than individual homes. So, you know, we Felt there was a gap there and something that was really well served by, by solar heat and power. And we, we designed our technology about how to best deliver for those commercial and industrial end users of heat. And we designed a technology with a very high energy density on the roof. So it’s all about, you know, our customers, they have high heat use, high power use, limited space on the roof, and they want to generate as much as they can with the roof space they have. So we really designed the technology, the, you know, the optics, the heat management, the electrical management, so that we could get the maximum amount of useful energy out of that roof space. And that’s what I’d say sets us apart from other, other solar technologies.

[00:05:38] UJackie De Burca: Ngabe ubhekisa kubuchwepheshe be-Virtue, Alex?

[00:05:41] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo, lokho kulungile. Ngakho sinemindeni emibili yezobuchwepheshe. Bobabili babizwa nge-Virtue. Ngakho-ke umuntu ubizwa ngokuthi i-Virtue Hot, lowo ngumkhiqizo oshisayo kuphela. Ngakho ikhiqiza ukushisa kwelanga kuze kufike ku-120 degrees Celsius. Futhi enye ibizwa nge-Virtue Pvt, futhi leyo iyunithi eyingxubevange. Ngakho ikhiqiza kokubili ukushisa namandla kagesi. Ngakho-ke i-PV ngeye-voltaics, uyazi, cabanga ukuthi amaphaneli e-PV futhi i-T ingeye-thermal. Ngakho-ke i-pvt, i-photovoltaic eshisayo. Ikhiqiza kokubili ugesi nokushisa. Futhi-ke, uyazi, izakhiwo eziningi zidinga zombili izinhlobo zamandla, ngakho-ke zifaneleka kakhulu kuzo.

[00:06:14] UJackie De Burca: Ngakho-ke ake sihlole kancane ngokwemibandela yabantu, u-Alex, owokuqala, i-Virtue pv, lokhu kusebenza kanjani ngempela?

[00:06:22] Dr Alex Mellor: Certainly, so it’s Virtue PVT and Virtue Hot. So the Virtue pvt, you have a string of PV cells, you know, they’ll convert sunlight to electricity with about 23% efficiency, which is a standard conversion rate for a PV cell or a PV panel. So if you think of a normal PV panel, it will convert about 20 to 25% of sunlight to electricity. So you’ve got another 75% there. And what’s happening to it? So a small amount is reflected, but most of it is just heating up the panel. So the normal PV panel, most of the sunlight actually just heats the panel and then that heat is lost to the environment and you just have a loss of that useful sun’s energy. What we do in our PVT units is we have a string of 12 PV cells and we run a heating. We have a heat exchanger behind the cells with a fluid channel. So we’re taking the heat off of the cells that was a byproduct of the electricity generation. We’re taking the heat off of the cells and Then putting that down into the building for, you know, useful heat uses. So the things I mentioned earlier, space heating, hot water heating or industrial process heat, uniquely we have the PV cells and the heat exchanger inside an evacuated tube and that’s to keep all of the heat in. So we don’t want to lose any heat to the environment. We want it all going into that fluid channel that’s then taken into the building. And that’s what allows us to operate at temperatures up to around 75C in terms of the PVT, which means we can do, you know, sanitary hot water, low temperature, industrial process heat, which, which makes up a very large part of global heat use. So it’s allows to get a good market penetration and really attack real applications of heat in the virtue hot product, that’s a thermal only product. So instead of the PV cells we have what’s called a selective absorber coating. And that’s very absorptive to sunlight, but it doesn’t emit very much radiation. So you have, as well as reducing the convective loss, evacuated tube, you’re also reducing the radiative loss through that. So that’s heat only, but it generates it in higher quantity and at higher temperatures. That one goes up to 120 Celsius. And both of the products have a very unique geometry using an integrated reflector, which means we maximize the energy density on, on, on an industrial commercial flat roof in particular.

[00:08:36] UJackie De Burca: Yiziphi izinselelo ezithile, Alex, ungasho ukuthi amandla anqunu anqobile ukuze azuze isilinganiso esiphezulu sokulondoloza ikhabhoni esenzeka ngobuhle?

[00:08:47] UDkt Alex Mellor: Ngiyabonga. Ngakho-ke kunenombolo yezakhi kuso. Omunye umklamo futhi ikakhulukazi i-optical design.

Ngakho-ke uyazi, ungaba ne-solar engenalo uhlobo lwezibuko noma ukucabangela noma ukugxila, futhi ungaba nelanga elinokucabangela nokugxila futhi lidinga ukuthi uhambise futhi ulandele ilanga.

Manje sasingafuni ukuba nezingxenye ezihambayo, ngakho-ke sasifuna ukungabikho kokulandela umkhondo, cha, ukungalandeli ilanga, kumile ngokuphelele. Futhi isizathu salokho ukuba nezindleko eziphansi nokuthembeka okuhle. Ngakho-ke sizibuze umbuzo, ungakuthola kanjani ukuminyana kwamandla amaningi kubuchwepheshe belanga obungashintshile? Futhi kwakungenxa yalowo mklamo we-optical lapho sagcina sisezingeni eliphezulu kakhulu lobuchwepheshe bokuminyana kwamandla. Ngakho lokho kwaba munye. Futhi ezinye izinselele, eziningi zalokho okwakha isoso eliyimfihlo? Konke kumayelana nendlela yokubhekana ne-vacuum kanye nokudla ngokusebenzisa ama-vector ahlukene wamandla angenayo naphuma ku-vacuum yakho. Ngakho unomkhiqizo oshisayo nokagesi ngaphakathi kwevacuum. Udinga ukukhipha ukushisa nogesi. Ukwenza kanjani lokho ngenkathi ugcina uphawu oluhle lwevacuum kodwa futhi usebenzisa izakhi ezibiza kancane namaqhinga obunjiniyela ahlakaniphile? Ngakho-ke ngingathi ezingeni lobuchwepheshe lezo kwakuyizinselelo ezimbili ezinkulu.

[00:09:59] Jackie De Burca: That’s a really excellent explanation. TUV certification. Alex Virtue pvt is the first evacuated tube collector to receive this. Can you explain the significance of this certification within the industry and how it enhances the credibility of your own technology?

[00:10:19] UDkt Alex Mellor: Impela. Isitifiketi, konke kwenziwa mayelana nokuhlolwa kohlobo kumazinga amaningi aziwayo embonini. Ngakho-ke uyazi, imikhiqizo ye-solar ezishisayo yi-Virtue hots ingumkhiqizo oshisayo welanga. Ngakho lokho kunesethi yezindinganiso. I-PVT yomibili i-solar thermal kanye nomkhiqizo we-PV, ngakho-ke kufanele ihambisane namasethi womabili wezindinganiso. Ngakho idlula kuhlelo lokuhlola oluqinile. Kulungile, ngakho-ke izivivinyo, uyazi, ziningi, ziningi, izivivinyo eziningi edlula kuzo, kodwa zilingana kakhulu noma ngaphansi emaqenjini amathathu. Ngakho kumayelana nokuphepha, ukuphila isikhathi eside kanye nokusebenza. Kulungile, ngakho-ke mayelana nokuphepha, bazohlola ukuze baqiniseke ukuthi ivimbela umlilo, ukuthi ifakwe kahle ngogesi kokubili endaweni eyomile namanzi, ukuthi ikwazi ukubhekana nokukhuphuka kukagesi nokunye, ukuze kuqinisekiswe ukuthi iphephile ophahleni futhi ayidali ingozi kunoma ubani esakhiweni. Mayelana nokuphila isikhathi eside, lokho okwenziwa ukuhlolwa kuhlose ukulingisa iminyaka engu-25 yokuphila ensimini emasontweni ambalwa okuhlolwa. Futhi ikwenza lokho isebenzisa igumbi lemvelo lapho iveza amayunithi ethu e-PVT ezimeni ezimbi kakhulu, ngokwedlulele kakhulu kunalokho ongakubona ensimini, kanye nokuhamba ngebhayisikili okusheshayo okuhloswe ukuthi emavikini ambalwa kukhiqize lokho okuzokwenzeka, eminyakeni engama-25. Ngakho-ke uyazi, ukuthi, izinga lokushisa lihamba ngebhayisikili lisuka kokususa ku-40 liye ku-85 Celsius, ukuhlola ukubanda komswakama, ukuhlola kwe-UV okwedlulele, ukuhlola ukushisa okumanzi. Futhi bona, bakwenza ngokulandelana okuqondile ukuthi, ukulandelana abakwaziyo kubangela ukuthi ubuchwepheshe obubuthakathaka buhluleke. Kulungile. Ngakho-ke yakhiwe ngendlela yokukwenza wehluleke ngaphandle uma umkhiqizo muhle kakhulu. Manje sesiwukuphela kobuchwepheshe be-PVT obukhishiwe obudlulise leso sitifiketi. Ngakho lokho kuyingqopha-mlando enkulu kithina. Kuneqembu lesithathu eliwukusebenza.

Ngakho-ke sidinga ukuxhumana namaklayenti ethu ukuthi mangakanani amandla azowonga ngokusebenzisa ubuchwepheshe bethu. Futhi sikwenza lokho sisebenzisa idatha yokusebenza kobuchwepheshe. Futhi lokho kuvela ekuhlolweni kwezinkampani ezintathu zangaphandle e-TUV Rheiland njengengxenye yaleyo nqubo yesitifiketi. Ngakho-ke, uyazi, abakholelwa idatha yethu bakholelwa idatha eqinisekisiwe yenkampani yangaphandle yokusebenza kwemikhiqizo yethu. Ngakho ukuphepha, ukuphila isikhathi eside nokusebenza.

[00:12:35] UJackie De Burca: Kuyinqubo nje emangalisayo futhi ehehayo, yonke into, akunjalo?

[00:12:40] Dr Alex Mellor: Yes. It took us a long time to go through it. We really had to engineer the product very carefully, understand the certification, testing, understand the different risks, make sure that the product was hard to it because you know, you have to spend a fair bit of money to do these tests. It takes a fair bit of time. When you’re going to put your products, you know, they’ll take about 40 products off the line at random and put them through various tests for a kind of a six month program. You want to be very sure at the beginning that you’re going to pass at the end. So you try to reproduce a lot of this in your own lab where you think there’s tests that are particularly difficult to pass. You try and reproduce them as best you can, make sure that you’ve engineered your solution so that when you finally send them to be tested, you’re confident that they’ll come out positively at the other end. And I’m thankful to say that we did so for customers. It gives them confidence in the longevity and the performance of the product and the safety.

In certain geographies it’s a legal requirement to have this certification. Not always and everywhere, but in certain instances it is. And it’s almost always a requirement for subsidies where they are available. So, you know, there’s no subsidies at present in the uk, but you know, in Germany we’re on the BAFA list for the German subsidies. In the Netherlands we’re eligible for the SD Fonshaleur. In France and all over Europe where subsidies are available, because we had the certification, we’re eligible for those subsidies. And of course that’s important for the customer as well.

[00:14:15] UJackie De Burca: Futhi lokho kungiholela kahle ngempela, Alex, kulokho okwakuzoba umbuzo wami olandelayo, okungukuthi, uyazi, lesi sitifiketi kumele sivule iminyango eminingi ngomsindo wezinto, impela eYurophu futhi mhlawumbe emhlabeni jikelele.

[00:14:28] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo, ngokuphelele. Ngakho-ke manje sinezinhlelo ezibukhoma eziyi-100 futhi ngicabanga ukuthi amazwe ayisishiyagalolunye noma ayi-10 ahlukene. Anginazo izibalo phambi kwami, kodwa kuningi noma kuncane kulelo oda. Sinamashubhu ethu elanga angu-15,000 emkhakheni futhi sesiqala ukukhula esikalini samaphrojekthi. Ngakho-ke, uyazi, uma uqala ngobuchwepheshe obusha, uqala ukwenza amaphrojekthi ama-square metres ambalwa omkhiqizo wakho ophahleni lomuntu bese Uya emashumini esikwele metres bese uya kumakhulu ama-square metres. Iphrojekthi yethu enkulukazi manje inezinkulungwane zamashubhu namakhava ethu, azungeze amamitha-skwele angama-700. Futhi manje sesinamaphrojekthi esigabeni sokuklama anosayizi ophindwe kabili walokho. Futhi sinamaphrojekthi akude kakhulu asathuthuka aphindwe ka-10 ubukhulu balokho. Ngakho-ke sesiqala ukuqhubekela phambili kokubili enanini lamaphrojekthi esikwaziyo ukuzenza namayunithi asetshenziswayo. Usayizi walawo maphrojekthi angawodwana, obaluleke kakhulu ngoba njengoba ukhula, unganikeza inani elingcono lomsebenzisi wakho wokugcina. Futhi ngicabanga ukuvelela kwamakhasimende esisebenza nawo. Ngeke ngiwasho ngokuqondile, kodwa inqwaba yamaketanga amahhotela amakhulu, ngokwesibonelo, asebenza nathi manje, ukuze, akhiphe ikhabhoni amaphothifoliyo awo kanye nemikhiqizo eminingi eyaziwayo kanye nokudla neziphuzo. Ngakho-ke yisikhathi esijabulisayo ngempela sokuba ku-Naked Energy futhi ubukele lokhu.

[00:15:48] UJackie De Burca: Leli zinga lizwakala limangalisa. Bengicabanga ngokweqiniso ukuthi kufanele kujabulise kanjani lokhu. Ingabe ungumuntu ophuphayo ngomsebenzi wakho, Alex? Encwadini yomuntu siqu?

[00:15:58] Dr Alex Mellor: Yes, absolutely. It’s been, I mean, on a personal level, it’s been kind of interesting journey for me. So, you know, starting out in academic R and D, you work on technology that has what’s called very low technology readiness level. So it’s kind of more blue skies, far reaching, but it’s quite early in its journey. And of all the different technologies people work on in that type of an environment, you know, perhaps 1 in 10 of them or less, you know, actually ends up on a roof generating energy. And that’s a really exciting space to work in. It’s very stimulating. In an intellectual level, it’s a great environment. But if you really want to see your work and innovation on roofs in a shorter space of time. There came a time in my life where it became more exciting to work for a startup company like Naked Energy, where we’re working products that aren’t the future in 20, 30 years, they’re the future in six months to a year. And then actually seeing our innovations on roofs and making a contribution to solving the climate crisis in real time is really, really satisfying. So it kind of, it marries up the mission of addressing an environmental challenge with the kind of intellectual stimulation of being able to work on exciting technology and solve difficult technical problems with the personal satisfaction of being able to work with really excellent people both at Naked Energy on the technical, commercial, marketing and software side. But also the customers we work with are really exciting. They have Their missions that they’re increasingly bought into. Really keen to carbonise their operations and addressing the challenge of how to do that. And if we’re able to offer them part of that solution, it’s extremely satisfying on all sides.

[00:17:48] UJackie De Burca: Yisikhathi esingokomlando. Yebo, okwamanje, Alex, futhi ngicabanga ukuthi mhlawumbe singangena kwamanye amagama ongawaqambanga, kodwa ake singene kwelinye elizokwaziwa kakhulu, okungenani eGreat Britain noma e-uk. Iphrojekthi ye-British Library, ngokusobala, ngokwazi kwami ​​ocwaningweni, leyo iphrojekthi enkulu yokushisa yelanga e-UK njengamanje. Ingabe lokho kulungile?

[00:18:13] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo, ngiqonde ukuthi lokho kungukuqonda kwethu futhi isikhundla sethu ukuthi sizoqhubeka nokusho lokho kuze kube yilapho othile esikhombisa enkulu.

[00:18:21] UJackie De Burca: Kuhle kakhulu.

[00:18:22] UDkt Alex Mellor: Kulungile, ocwaningweni, ake singene kulo.

[00:18:27] UJackie De Burca: U-Alex, zaziyini izinselelo zezokusebenza nezobuchwepheshe zokuqalisa iphrojekthi yezinga elinjalo?

[00:18:33] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo, ngokuphelele. Ngakho okokuqala ukukhomba ukuthi kuyini ukushisa okusetshenziswayo nokuthi uzohlanganisa kanjani kukho. Ngakho umtapo wolwazi uthakazelisa ngempela.

They have a reasonably high hot water demand as a large building, but they have a high summer demand for heat as well because they have a heat driven humidity control system as well as providing kind of space heating for people in the building. They need to control the humidity because of course they have all the important books and manuscripts, scripts there, of course, and they do that using a heat driven desiccant system. So firstly, understanding that and how we would integrate into it was a challenge.

Bekunezinselelo ezithakazelisayo ngempela mayelana nokuhlela. Leso yibhilidi elisohlwini lwebanga lokuqala. Yebo. Futhi-ke esikwenzayo ukwakha i-solar array ophahleni nangaphandle. Manje lokho sekunemiphumela ngokusobala ekuhleleni. Ukuhlela akwenziwanga nje ngomkhandlu wendawo, konke kwenziwa nangeHeritage England ngoba iyisizinda esisohlwini lwebanga lokuqala. Ngakho kakhulu, imikhawulo eqinile kakhulu kulokho ongakwenza lapho. Okuhle ngobuchwepheshe bethu bunephrofayili ephansi kakhulu, ngakho buhlala ku-26cm ukusuka ophahleni futhi lokho kukubeka ngaphansi kobude bodonga, okusho ukuthi abubonakali emgwaqweni. Ngakho-ke ayibonakali uma uhambahamba emtatsheni wezincwadi. Futhi yilokho okwakusho ukuthi kwakuvunyelwe ukufakwa lapho, uma kubhekwa isimo samagugu saleso sakhiwo. Ngakho lokho kwakuyinselele.

Ukumane uphakamisele phezulu yonke into ophahleni, uyazi, ngeplaza esetshenziswa kakhulu umphakathi futhi ingavalwa kuphela isikhathi esifushane ukwenza lowo msebenzi. Lokho bekuyinselele kakhulu. Futhi-ke okokugcina ukuthi, kanjani ukudonsa ukushisa yonke indlela phakathi kwesakhiwo. Ngakho-ke, niyazi, sinabo, abaqoqi ophahleni abaphehla ukushisa, abaqoqi bethu belanga abalungile. Futhi-ke cishe amamitha angu-200 uhlobo lokwehla nokusuka eceleni, unegumbi lokutshala lapho udinga ukuletha lokho kushisa. Kuyi, yinto efana naleyo. Ngakho-ke ukuthola ipayipi lisebenza kuzo zonke lezo zitezi ezihlukene nakulelo banga kanye nokungena kwe-venous, niyazi, lokho kwakuyinselele enkulu kakhulu.

Isici esinoveli lapho. Lokhu kuzoba okokugcina, ngiyathembisa. Ngakho sinakho, sihlala sifaka ukwala ukushisa njengengxenye yamasistimu ethu. Ngakho-ke ezikhathini lapho kunesidingo esincane kakhulu sokushisa, uma abaqoqi bekhiqiza ukushisa, unendawo ongakubeka kuyo. Uma ingeke ifakwe esakhiweni. Sihlale sihlose ukusebenzisa lokho njalo ngoba kuyisisefo sokwehluleka. Uyazi, uma wonke umuntu eya eholidini isonto lonke noma into enjalo futhi engasebenzisi ukushisa, kodwa kufanele ube nakho. Futhi ngenxa yesimo esiyigugu, asizange sivunyelwe ukulibeka ngaphandle kwesakhiwo. Ngakho-ke empeleni ingaphakathi futhi yenqaba ukushisa kwelinye lamapayipi angaphakathi kanye neziqhumane ezikhuphuka ngesakhiwo. Ngakho lelo bekuyisixazululo esiyingqayizivele senkinga ethokozisayo.

We also used their existing pipework and heating system as additional thermal storage, which is interesting. So as well as having a large thermal store, about 15 cubic meters, because they’re running a low temperature hot water distribution system. If you allow that to heat above its set point, you’re also storing energy in that system, which is really interesting because it means you get that storage for free without having to install extra equipment. That was a really nice idea of the designer there. So, yeah, we delivered that project together with PBR and Convert Energy doing the, the install and KJ Tate with the lead designer, we supplied the equipment and did the initial concept for the project. It was a really nice collaboration between some very good companies and some excellent engineers. So, yeah, really, really proud to be a part of it.

[00:22:26] Jackie De Burca: So one of the things that comes to mind obviously sounds really, really fascinating and very intelligently done, but with the challenges that you’ve mentioned, obviously, Alex, but one of the things that comes to mind is how has this advanced the British Library’s sustainability goals and what lessons can other institutions learn from this?

[00:22:49] UDkt Alex Mellor: Ngakho-ke bakwazile ukunciphisa ikhabhoni yabo NGEnto efana no-15%, ngiyakholwa.

Anginawo amadata phambi kwami. Ngakho-ke iyingxenye yedrayivu ebanzi ye-decarbonization. Njengesigaba sokuqala bafake ubuchwepheshe bethu futhi benza iphrojekthi yokushaya ucingo yamahhala eceleni kwayo futhi ngicabanga ukuthi bazobe behlele ukufaka ugesi okusele kwabo, manje sekuyini ukusetshenziswa kwabo kwegesi eminyakeni ezayo. Ngakho-ke, thina, sinikeza abasebenzisi bokugcina, uyazi, ingxenye yesixazululo esiphelele. Ngakho-ke ubuchwepheshe bethu buzongena buhambisana nobunye ubuchwepheshe. Ngakho-ke uyazi, ungasebenza ndawonye ngepompo yokushisa, usebenze ndawonye, ​​uyazi, ama-boilers wabo wegesi akhona ukuze unciphise ukusetshenziswa kwalawo ma-boilers. Ngokuvamile, umsebenzisi wokugcina uzoba nohlobo lwesistimu yokushisisa esebenzisa igesi azofuna ukuyifakela ugesi ngokuzayo. Bazofuna mhlawumbe ukunciphisa ukusetshenziswa kukabhayela namuhla ngokufaka ubuchwepheshe bethu bese kuthi lapho sebeshintsha amabhayela abo egesi bafake ugesi noma iphampu yokushisa, ubuchwepheshe bethu busebenza ngokuhambisana nokusha, niyazi, iphampu yokushisa entsha ukuze kuncishiswe ukusetshenziswa kukagesi kwephampu yokushisa. Ngakho-ke kuhle impela futhi lokho kukuvumela ukuthi, ubambezele uhambo lwakho lokususa ikhabhoni, nokuyinto ethakazelisa kakhulu kubasebenzisi abaningi bemicimbi ngoba vele badinga ukulinganisela izidingo zabo zokususa ikhabhoni kanye nesidingo sabo sokuphumelela kwezomnotho unyaka nonyaka. Futhi ngezinye izikhathi indlela yokwenza ngezigaba iyindlela yokwenza lokho.

[00:24:13] UJackie De Burca: Ingabe kukhona uhlobo lwabasebenzi lokuphawula okufana nalokhu oluhlakaniphe ngempela noma lwehlukile noma yini? Ungathola noma yiluphi uhlobo lwempendulo eqenjini lapho?

[00:24:21] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo, yebo. Ngisho ngenkathi sixhumana nomtapo wolwazi wangempela lapho. Bajabule kakhulu ngephrojekthi. Siyakwazi ukubanikeza inkundla yokuqapha enhle okusho ukuthi bathola uhlobo lokubona ezikrinini zabo zekhompyutha ukuthi ikhiqiza ini nokuthi kwenzakalani. Okuhle impela ngoba kubenza basondele kancane kuphrojekthi.

Ubona i-asethi phezu kwendlu bese uzibuza ukuthi yenzani? Kodwa ngenxa yokuthi singawabonisa ngesikhathi sangempela, lawa ama-kilowatts, lawa amahora angama-kilowatt. Yilokhu okwenzekayo ngesistimu yakho okwamanje. Kwenza kube ngokoqobo kancane kubo. Ngakho-ke, leso kwakuyisici esihle esingeziwe futhi. Kodwa yebo, ngokuvamile wonke umuntu engikhulume naye emtatsheni wezincwadi futhi ozakwethu bebejabule ngempela.

[00:25:01] Jackie De Burca: Fantastic. Now going back to the obviously the overarching topic of the decarbonisation of heat. Heat accounts for 50% of global energy emissions and 75% of that is coming from fossil fuels. How does Naked Energies technology contribute to, to Addressing this critical issue, Alex?

[00:25:23] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo. Ngakho inikela njengengxenye yengxube entsha yamandla.

So, you know, heat decarbonization will be a combination of different things. It will be partly heat pumps, you know, operating for, to produce hot water and also steam. It will be hydrogen in some places and a number of other sources and it’ll also be solar heat.

Futhi lapho ukushisa kwelanga kuhle ngempela ekunikeleni yilapho unabasebenzisi bokushisa abanesidingo sokushisa ehlobo. Ngakho-ke noma ngabe abasebenzisi bezentengiselwano abanamanzi amaningi ashisayo, ikakhulukazi lapho abantu behlala khona, ngakho-ke amahhotela, amafulethi, amakhaya anakekela izingane, izindawo zokuhlala, izinto ezinjalo. Bese futhi izinga lokushisa eliphansi lenqubo yakho yokushisa yezimboni ngoba zisebenzisa ukushisa unyaka wonke. Ngakho-ke noma yikuphi lapho kusetshenziswa ukushisa unyaka wonke kuwuhlelo oluhle kakhulu. Isicelo sokushisa kwelanga lapho kungasebenza khona eduze kwazo, uyazi, izibaseli ezikhona kakade noma eduze kwephampu yokushisa noma kokubili.

Ngokuphambene nenkolelo evamile, iyasebenza ngokuphelele ezindaweni ezisenyakatho.

Ngakho-ke uma ubheka lapho emhlabeni basebenzisa ukushisa kwelanga kakhulu kunanoma iyiphi enye indawo, empeleni amazwe afana ne-Austria neDenmark, okumangaza abantu ngoba abantu abaningi bacabanga, o, lokhu kungasebenza kuphela, eningizimu ye-Europe nase-Afrika kanye, ne-GEC njalonjalo. Iyasebenza ngempela, ezindaweni ezisenyakatho kakhulu naseningizimu kakhulu. Ngakho-ke ifaneleka ngokuphelele enyakatho yeYurophu, isibonelo, futhi ngokuqinisekile e-uk. Ngakho-ke, yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi inengxenye enkulu okufanele iyidlale futhi ngicabanga ukuthi ngenxa yokuthi siphusha kanzima uhlobo lwezicelo zezimboni zezentengiso, ngicabanga ukuthi sinobuchwepheshe obuhle nendima enhle kakhulu okufanele siyidlale.

[00:27:06] U-Jackie De Burca: Ngokusobala, imikhawulo yamagridi ekufakeni ugesi ukunikezwa kokushisa kwe-UK yenza ubuchwepheshe obufana ne-solar thermal bubaluleke kakhulu. Ubona kanjani ubuhle obuhambisana namaphampu okushisa kuqhinga elibanzi lokususa ikhabhoni ukushisa?

[00:27:22] Dr Alex Mellor: Yep. So it can happen at a number of levels, so it can happen on the individual building level. So integrating solar heat with a heat pump works really well and there’s enough as a number of different kind of integration methods you can use. And we have a number of projects in the field where they have a completely off gas system that uses a combination of our solar technology and a heat pump. So that can work really well. You can do it at utility level. So I’ve just come out of a meeting talking about applications for heat networks. You know, they’re building a heat network now in my local town in Worthing, and solar heat can contribute there really well. So it’s reasonable heat network to do maybe, you know, in a climate like the UK, you can do perhaps 20% of the requirement with solar Heat and then balance that with a heat pump or something else. If you’re in Southern Europe, it could be more like 50%.

Ngakho ungakwazi ukuhlanganisa emazingeni ahlukene. Kungaba izinga lesakhiwo, kungaba yizinga lensiza, kungaba kumakhaya ngamanye, kungaba ezakhiweni ezinkulu zezimboni zezentengiselwano. Kunezinketho eziningi zokuhlanganisa ezihlukene.

[00:28:33] UJackie De Burca: Manje Amandla Anqunu asenyuka emhlabeni jikelele. Alex, yiziphi izimakethe ogxile kuzo futhi ubujwayelanisa kanjani ubuchwepheshe nezifunda nezimo zezulu ezahlukahlukene?

[00:28:44] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo.

So we’re particularly focused on northern and Southern Europe and North America at the moment. So most of our installs to date, I’d say maybe 80% is the UK and the Netherlands, but we’re starting to have good traction in Germany, in Spain and also in North America. So there’s a manufacturing line starting in the US and a distribution partner there. We’ve had our first project at Creighton University, which is really nice. And I hope we’re moving to Canada as well, because as I mentioned, there is a really good opportunity in northern climate. Our. The fact that we’re an evacuated tube technology means we can operate in those northern climbs, which is really good. And we’re also very hard to high radiation and temperature, so we can also operate in very southern climates. Yeah, so sorry. And I kind of talk with a northern hemisphere bent here. I mean, I mean, I mean, closer to the pole and closer to the equator are both applicable. We have slightly different mounting solutions depending on the latitude. Just because the sun angles are different. Yeah. So we essentially have. We have two types of mountain frame, one from sort of polar latitudes, you know, so either very north or very south. So northern Europe would be an example, or Canada or the northern U.S.

futhi sinolunye uhlaka lwama-latitudes enkabazwe okwengeziwe olukuvumela ukuthi uphendukise amashubhu ku-engeli elungile. Ngakho-ke phakathi kwalezo zinhlobo ezimbili ezikhuphukayo, siyakwazi ukumboza noma yini ukusuka enkabazwe kuze kufike, uyazi, amadigri angu-60 e-latitude, okulapho kuhlala khona u-99% wabantu bomhlaba. Ngakho-ke, kunjalo, kunjalo, kusebenza kakhulu kuzo zonke izimo zezulu.

[00:30:38] UJackie De Burca: Kuhle kakhulu lokho. Manje, ingabe kukhona okusha okuzayo noma amaphrojekthi e-Naked Energy okujabulisa kakhulu?

[00:30:47] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo. Ngakho-ke ezingeni lephrojekthi, sesizokwenza iphrojekthi entsha kakhulu. Indawo yezimboni endaweni yaseMidlands e-UK esiyihlanganisa ne-absorption chiller ukuze sikwazi ukunikeza ukupholisa kwelanga ngomkhiqizo wethu wokushisisa ilanga. Lokho kuhle ngempela. Lokho kusesigabeni sokuqala. Bese kuthi ezigabeni ezimbili nezintathu zaleyo phrojekthi, sizobe Sisebenzisa into ebizwa ngokuthi i-inter seasonal heat storage, esivumela ukuthi sikhiqize ukushisa kwelanga ehlobo futhi sikusebenzise esakhiweni ekwindla nasebusika ngokugcina ingxenye yalokho kushisa emathangeni amakhulu kakhulu kanye nenye ingxenye yalokho kushisa emigodini engaphansi komhlaba.

Iphrojekthi enhle ngokumangalisayo, emisha futhi ibhekana nenkinga yokuthi, uyazi, usisingatha kanjani isidingo sakho sokushisisa kwendawo yasebusika? Ukusebenzisa ukushisa kwelanga, okukhiqiza okuningi ehlobo kunasebusika. Kuyajabulisa ngempela lokho.

On the product level, we’re now starting R and D into our next generation of products. We’re looking at how to get much higher thermal efficiency in the pvt.

Ukuhlolwa kokukhiqiza kokuqala kuyenzeka namuhla. Kuyajabulisa ngempela lokho.

Futhi emkhiqizweni oshisayo kuphela, sibheke ekuthuthukiseni ukuminyana kokubona ngokushintsha indlela esenza ngayo idizayini ye-angular yesibuko ukuze sikwazi ukuthola ukugxilisana okuphezulu kancane kodwa ngaphandle kwesidingo sokulandelela. Noma kunjalo, lokho kuvumela ukuthola ukusebenza kahle okuphezulu, izinga lokushisa eliphansi kanye nezindleko eziphansi.

Ngakho-ke kukhona umbhangqwana, kukhona okunye okumbalwa ohlangothini lomkhiqizo, kodwa uyazi, lezo, yizo izinto ezithatha isikhathi sami okwamanje.

[00:32:23] UJackie De Burca: Kulungile, izikhathi ezijabulisayo nezijabulisayo. Ngokusobala.

Alex, yini oyibona njengezithiyo ezinkulu ekwamukelweni okusabalele kobuchwepheshe be-solar thermal kanye ne-PVT futhi zinganqotshwa kanjani?

[00:32:37] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo.

Ngakho ingxenye yawo amasiko kanye nombono.

Ngakho sasino-Ed Miliband emahhovisi ethu lapho esenguShadow Secretary futhi sambonisa igrafu ethakazelisa ngempela ukuthi nayo yayithakazelisa kakhulu, okuwukuthunyelwa kokushisa kwelanga emazweni ahlukene eYurophu.

Futhi uma ubheka eJalimane nase-Austria naseDenmark, ukuthunyelwa kwekhanda ngalinye kuphakathi kwezikhathi eziyi-10 nezingu-20 ngaphezu kwase-UK.

Nokho uma ubheka la mazwe, isimo sezulu siyefana kakhulu. Ngakho isimo sezulu akuyona incazelo.

Amazwe abo anezinga elifanayo lokuthuthukiswa komnotho, banamasiko afanayo. Ngakho-ke kukhona nje okwenzekile lapho okusho ukuthi imibono yokushisa kwelanga e-UK ihluke kakhulu emibonweni yokushisa kwelanga eJalimane nase-Austria naseDenmark. Ngakho-ke, singayishintsha kanjani leyo mibono ukuze emazweni afana nelakithi siqale ukwenza izinto ezinhle ezenziwe kwezinye izindawo.

Futhi kungokunikeza abantu ubuchwepheshe obuhle, obuthembekile. Futhi sikhulume ngesitifiketi. Imayelana nokunikeza abasebenzisi bokugcina iphakheji yokuqapha efanele ukuze babe nokuqiniseka ukuthi bakhiqiza amandla abawathenjisiwe.

Futhi ngokwenza lokho, uqala ukwakha igama elihle lokushisa kwelanga futhi, futhi wenze abantu babone amandla akho. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi sinjalo, sithatha isinyathelo esihle ohambweni oluya ekwenzeni lokho. Ngakho-ke kukhona yebo, sicela.

[00:34:11] UJackie De Burca: Uxolo, iphutha lami lelo. Bengilokhu ngijabulile lapho ngoba ngingasho, uyazi, sengineminyaka emihlanu noma eyisithupha ngiyisebenzisa lapha eSpain, akukho okuhle njengokwazi ukuthi awenzi lutho ngaphandle kokungena, amandla atholakala kithi.

[00:34:29] Dr Alex Mellor: It’s very satisfying, isn’t it? And it’s the distributed nature of it as well. That’s very nice. It’s not renewable energy that’s being generated hundreds of miles away and then being mixed with all sorts of other types of energy and non renewable and then being kind of wired into you. It’s happening on the roof where you are. It’s very pure and democratic way of generating energy.

[00:34:52] UJackie De Burca: Impela kunjalo. Ngakho-ke uma udlulela esikhathini esizayo, ubona kanjani eminyakeni emihlanu kuya kweyishumi ezayo lapho i-Naked Energy kanye nemboni yamandla avuselelekayo kuzoba khona?

[00:35:06] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo. Ngakho-ke njengoba ngisho, ngicabanga, ngicabanga ukuthi ukushisa kuyinselelo enkulu wonke umuntu ashintshele kuyo. Ngicabanga ukuthi, lokho kubonakale kahle kakhulu enyakatho yeYurophu naseMelika. Ngakho-ke uyazi, lapho kwakufanele, uyazi, ngenkathi ngiqala e-Naked Energy nganginomuzwa wokuthi kufanele ngifundise wonke umuntu, ngokubaluleka kokushisa okuvuselelekayo. Njengoba manje sinamakhasimende eza kithi ethi sidinga ukuqeda ukushisa kwethu. Ngakho lolo shintsho ku-paradigm lwenzeka ngesivinini esisheshayo, okuyinto emangalisayo. Futhi ngokubheka nje okwenzekayo eduze kwethu ngokwezenzo zamaklayenti ethu, izenzo zozakwethu, ngicabanga ngempela ukuthi ubunezibalo hhayi mina, Jackie, kodwa angikhumbuli ukuthi mangaki amaphesenti owashilo wokushisa akhiqizwa yimithombo engavuseleleki. Kwakungama-80s.

[00:35:56] UJackie De Burca: 50% ngicabanga ukuthi kwakunjalo, ngiyacabanga.

[00:35:58] UDkt Alex Mellor: U-50% inani lamandla esiwasebenzisa njengokushisa. Kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi kulowo 50%, ngicabanga, ngicabanga ukuthi cishe u-90% walokho ukhona.

[00:36:05] UJackie De Burca: 75. Uxolo, yebo.

[00:36:06] UDkt Alex Mellor: Kusuka kuphethiloli.

[00:36:07] UJackie De Burca: Yebo, kwakuyilokho okwakuyikho.

[00:36:08] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo, yebo, ngiyakubona ngempela lokho kwehla futhi yebo, nge-Naked Energy ngicabanga, ngicabanga ukuthi sidlala indima ekhulayo kulokho. Ngiqonde ukuthi, bheka, uyazi, singezinye zezinkampani eziningi futhi singomunye wobuchwepheshe obuningi futhi wonke umuntu wenza umnikelo wakhe ekuxazululeni leyo nkinga yesimo sezulu. Kodwa ngiya ngokuya ngibona senza obalulekile.

[00:36:30] UJackie De Burca: Impela. Nakanjani. Ngakho yebo, izikhathi ezijabulisayo. Ngokusobala ngezinye izikhathi lokho esibhekana nakho ezindabeni. Yebo, izinsuku eziningi zingasicindezela kancane uma singazi ngalezi ezinye izinto ezinhle ngempela ezenzekayo. Uma unganikeza iseluleko esisodwa kubakhi bezinqubomgomo noma amabhizinisi amadolonzima ukusebenzisa ubuchwepheshe bokushisa obuvuselelekayo, kungaba yini?

[00:36:53] UDkt Alex Mellor: Ngingathi ngiqalaze emhlabeni wonke futhi ngibone ukuthi yini ephumelele futhi yini engazange iphumelele futhi lapho izwe likwazile ukwenza impumelelo yangempela yobuchwepheshe, njengoba kwenzekile, ngokwesibonelo, ukushisa kwelanga eDenmark nase-Austria. Zibuze ukuthi kungani kunjalo bese uzama futhi ukukukhiqiza lokho endaweni yakho futhi usebenzise leso sibonelo ukuze ulwe nozakwenu abathi, oh, uyazi, lobu buchwepheshe abukho lapha.

[00:37:17] UJackie De Burca: Uphelele.

Manje, imicabango yokugcina. Yini ekugqugquzela kakhulu ngomsebenzi wakho? Ngicabanga ukuthi sike sakuthinta lokho. Kodwa, uyazi, okwenzayo nge-Naked Energy, yini ekukhuthaza kakhulu? Futhi yimuphi umyalezo noma imilayezo ongathanda ukuyishiyela abalaleli bethu?

[00:37:34] UDkt Alex Mellor: Impela.

Ngakho-ke kimi, ngike ngathinta lokhu ekuqaleni. Kuwukugqugquzelwa kwemishini kanye nabantu.

Ngisho, lokho kumayelana nokusebenza kuleyo ndawo. Yilokho okutholayo kukho.

Injongo, ukuxazulula inkinga yesimo sezulu, ukukhuthazwa, ukwenza lokho ngokuxazulula izinselele ezinzima zobuchwepheshe. Bese kuthi-ke abantu, niyazi, izinkulungwane zabantu abahlukene abakulolo hambo kanye nawe, kokubili lokho Naked Energy kanye nabalingani bethu kanye, kanye namakhasimende ethu. Yilokho okwenza kube indawo ejabulisa ngempela ukusebenza kanye nendawo enhle yokusebenza. Yilokho okungenza ngivuke ekuseni.

[00:38:12] UJackie De Burca: Ekugcineni, ngicabanga ukuthi kufanele ngikwengezele eyodwa ngenxa yomunye umsebenzi ofakwe ku-bio yakho ozofakwa ekhasini lohlelo lapha. Unayo indodana, angithi?

[00:38:23] UDkt Alex Mellor: Yebo, kunjalo.

[00:38:24] UJackie De Burca: Ngakho-ke lokho kumele kufane kakhulu, uyazi, kuhlanganiswe nakho konke lokhu kugqugquzela onakho.

[00:38:30] UDkt Alex Mellor: Ngisho, yebo, ngokuphelele.

Uyazi, kwafika isikhathi empilweni yami eminyakeni embalwa edlule lapho bengihlale ngikhathazekile ngendawo ezungezile kanye nenkinga yesimo sezulu. Kodwa ngicabanga, ngicabanga ukuthi ngisemncane kwakuwukukhathazeka okungokwengqondo. Ukukhathazeka okwenzeka ekhanda lakho.

Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi eminyakeni yamuva nje, ingxenye yayo ikhula kancane futhi ingxenye yayo ibona okwenzekayo eduze kwakho, iba ukukhathazeka okungokomzwelo kakhulu kanye ne-visceral njengoba uqala, uqala ukucabanga, o, lokhu empeleni kuzothinta izingane zami nomndeni wethu nokuthi kusho ukuthini kubo, kunokuba, oh, lokhu kuyinto eyenzekile. Uyazi, umqondo wezizukulwane ezizayo, ubonakala ungaqondakali, akunjalo?

Kodwa uma uqala ukucabanga ngakho mayelana nabantu abakuzungezile usakhula, akudingekile ukuba kube izingane zakho siqu, nguwe nje, abantu abasha abaseduze nawe empilweni yakho, uqala ukuba, ngicabanga, nokuningi. Ukukhathazeka okwengeziwe kwe-visceral mayelana nokuthi kusho ukuthini ukuguquka kwesimo sezulu.

Uyazi, kuyethusa.

[00:39:38] UJackie De Burca: Okwabaningi, abantu abaningi. Kodwa umsebenzi, umsebenzi ohileleke kuwo ubaluleke kakhulu futhi uyakhuthaza.

[00:39:44] UDkt Alex Mellor: Eqinisweni, kuhle ngempela ukuba yingxenye yomzabalazo. Futhi, niyazi, baningi kakhulu abantu manje abayingxenye yomzabalazo. Ngakho kuhle lokho.

[00:39:52] UJackie De Burca: Yilokho-ke. Ngakho-ke, lalela, bekujabulisa ngempela, kuthakazelisa, futhi ngiyasazisa kakhulu isikhathi sakho.

[00:40:00] UDkt Alex Mellor: Ngibonga kakhulu ngokuba nami. Jackie, kube yintokozo yangempela ukukhuluma nawe.

[00:40:03] UJackie De Burca: Ngiyabonga kakhulu. U-Alex uthanda ukuhlakanipha. Amazwi akhayo lawa.