S3, E21: Ubunjalo Bamadolobha Ethu noDkt Nadina Galle, Ingxenye 4

Okulotshiweyo okukhiqizwe ngedijithali (kungase kuhlanganise amaphutha athile)

Good morning or good afternoon, depending on what time of the day you’re listening to this. This is Jackie de Burca for Constructive Voices, and I am in my final recording with the wonderful author. And she has many other and many other hats that she wears as well. Nadine Galle, who has written this really amazing book which is accessible to all people. And we are now on our final chat, which is really honing in on how nature can affect our health positively.

Futhi sizongena kumasu amayelana nokuchayeka kwemvelo kanye nezinqubo ezingcono kakhulu nokunye. UNadina, kulabo abangalalelanga ezinye iziqephu, kusobala ukuthi sizobashaya kancane labo bantu sithi buyela emuva ulalele isiqephu sokuqala ngoba uNadina wenza isingeniso esimangalisayo ngawo wonke umsebenzi wakhe. Kodwa kulabo, ngasizathu simbe, uma belalele lesi siqephu kuphela, ngicela unikeze isingeniso esifushane ngawe?

[00:01:11] UDkt Nadina Galle: Nakanjani. Futhi ngiyabonga, Jackie, ngokuba nami futhi. Futhi sanibonani nonke. Igama lami nginguDkt Nadina Galle. Ngingunjiniyela wemvelo wase-Dutch Canadian. Ngiyi-National Geographic Explorer yango-2024, futhi kamuva nje ngingumbhali we-Nature of Our Cities. Singawasebenzisa Kanjani Amandla Omhlaba Wemvelo Ukuze Sisinde Iplanethi Eshintshayo.

[00:01:33] UJackie De Burca: Kuhle kakhulu. Ngakho-ke sizogxumela phakathi. Kungani imvelo ibalulekile empilweni yomuntu? Nadina, ngiyazi ukuthi lowo ngumbuzo omkhulu, kodwa ngihlekise futhi ungiphendule ngokusemandleni akho, ngiyacela.

[00:01:44] Dr Nadina Galle: Yeah, it is indeed a big question. And I think I’ll start with one of the benefits that I think most people can relate to. And that is just the benefit on our mental health. Right. Exposure to green spaces significantly can reduce stress, anxiety, depression. Nature has this really calming and restorative effect, which I think can improve or not. I think research shows us can improve our mood and our cognitive function, and I think in general just helps people feel more relaxed and focused. Mental health is one thing. There’s also our physical health. I say nature really promotes physical activity, whether that be walking or cycling or even just playing outdoors. Relax, relaxing outdoors, they say. Research has shown us that regular access to parks and green spices, you know, reduces risks of things like chronic disease, obesity, cardiovascular disease, diabetes.

Lokho ngokwakho bekubaluleke ngempela.

But there’s also these other things that we may not necessarily think about or see, and those are things like air quality. Having trees and plants can filter pollutants, improve air quality, and thereby also improving our respiratory issues. And overall that comes with that. It regulates temperatures, so it keeps Our cities cool in the summertime. It also keeps our cities warm in the wintertime, which is kind of interesting. It acts as a buffer both ways.

Kunengxenye enkulu yokuxhumana nabantu, engicabanga ukuthi ihambisana nempilo yengqondo. Kepha lo mbono wokuthi izindawo eziluhlaza namapaki empeleni zinikeza izindawo zokuxhumana nomphakathi, okubaluleke kakhulu osukwini nesikhathi lapho sibhekene nokuhlukaniswa nomphakathi kanye nesizungu esiphuma kulolu bhubhane, bekuyinto enkulu leyo. Futhi enkathini lapho abantu beya beba mbalwa abaya emasontweni noma ezindaweni zokholo, izindawo zemvelo namapaki aluhlaza empeleni kungenye yezindawo ezimbalwa esinazo zokuba nalezi zindawo ezihlanganyelwe lapho singahlangana khona futhi sikhuthaze ukuxhumana nomphakathi.

And I would say lastly, just to kind of circle back to that first point is, yes, it’s important for mental health. But even bigger than that, I think nature and green spaces in our cities, they offer this restorative escape from the noise and chaos and pressures of urban life. And that can be a lot of physical pressures, right? Traffic, big buildings, a lot of asphalt, loud noises. But it can also be the stress of it, right? Busy jobs, busy agendas, you know, stressed out parents and kids, and over scheduled agendas, you know, all of these things without us really realizing at times, can have a huge impact on us. And being in nature, even if that just means taking part of your commute through a green corridor, cycling through a tree lined street, or you know, taking your lunch break in a park, all of those things can have massive impacts on our health. And it feels sometimes tough to kind of, you know, I could go into the specifics of each of these and give you stats and figures about why each of it helps from, you know, helping children not develop myopia, from making sure we have enough vitamin D, from making sure we get enough physical activity. But it almost feels kind of reductionistic to hone down the benefits of nature in this kind of really scientific lens. Because ultimately I believe we came from nature, we evolved in nature. It’s part of what makes us human. And I think anyone can relate to this idea that if you’re spending the majority of your day inside, you just did not feel well, versus when you spend more time outdoors and in nature, you automatically feel better. And I think that’s something that everyone can relate to. And ultimately, I believe we are hardwired to love nature and want to be in nature.

[00:05:38] UJackie De Burca: Ngivumelana nawe ngenhliziyo yonke.

Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi, uyazi, enye yezinto ezibalulekile ukuthi thina, esikhuluma ngayo ukuthi ukhulume ngabantwana emvelweni, kulungile, Ngokuhle kwabo ngokomzimba, ngokomzimba, ukugwema, niyazi, izifo ezibangelwa ukuntula. uvithamini D nokunye. Kodwa-ke, ngesikhathi esithile encwadini yakho, uyasho ukuthi ngesikhathi sokubhala, ukhulelwe uLuca. Futhi-ke kukhona, niyazi, okuthintayo, ngicabanga, izinto eziningi, hhayi nje zabesifazane, impela, amadoda nawo acabanga ngalezizinto. Ngizoletha umntwana emhlabeni njengoba unjalo? Uyazi, lolu uhlobo lwemibuzo ngokusobala abanye abantu ababa nayo. Futhi kukhona, uyazi, mhlawumbe ezinye izizathu ezizwakalayo zalokho. Lokhu bekuyinqubo kuwe, ngiyacabanga. Adina.

[00:06:28] Dr Nadina Galle: Yeah, it’s really tough. It’s a conversation that I hear a lot around me. This very dark fear and lack of optimism for the future, this fear of climate, of climate change, of the effects of it, and this general feeling of this is not a world that I want to bring children into. And that is just. I mean, I get emotional just thinking about that because I believe we’re put on this earth to bring more life onto this earth. And I believe that is our purpose at the end of the day. And no matter what form that takes, obviously not everybody has to have their own children if that’s not something that they desire. But, you know, bringing in children into the world, whether that be nieces or nephews or stepchildren or adopted children, is such a way that we contribute also to the future of our planet, to the future of the world that we will leave behind for those children. And it’s such, it’s so heartbreaking to me that there are so many people in the world that feel that that is no longer something worth doing. Because I feel like when you, when you, when you decide that, it also means that you’ve given up on your own life in some, in some, in some way or another. And I think that the true to test of a beautiful society is those that plant trees and plant natural areas knowing that they will never sit under the shade of that tree. In fact, that’s, that’s an old proverb that I quote in the book as well.

Ngikholelwa ukuthi ukuba semvelweni, kunokuba ngigxile nje ekubhubhiseni nasebumnyameni bokuguquguquka kwesimo sezulu, ngikholelwa ukuthi ukugxila emvelweni empeleni kunikeza lo muzwa omkhulu wokuchichima, lo muzwa wokuthi kuhlale kunokuningi nokuthi kunokuningi kwawo wonke umuntu nokuthi kunokuningi. lapho lokho kwavela khona, kuningi esingakudala. Futhi ngiyathanda ukucabanga ngalowo muzwa wenala kunalomuzwa wokwesaba. Nokuhlazeka nokukhomba abantu abenza izinto ngendlela engafanele.

I really enjoy, you know, writing and working at this cusp of urban nature because I believe that is the nature that we have in our daily lives that’s so critical, but it’s also operating from this place of abundance rather than this feeling of. Of shame and guilt.

[00:08:44] UJackie De Burca: Yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kuphushwe kahle kakhulu. Futhi elinye igama elizofika engqondweni yami mayelana, niyazi, abantu nemvelo, niyazi, izingane ziboniswa othisha bazo, niyazi, lokho kungaba othisha babo esikoleni, okungenzeka kube othisha babo esikoleni. umndeni kanye, uyazi, abangani, omakhelwane, ukuthi singabambisana kanjani nemvelo. Ukusebenzisana igama elifikayo emqondweni ngoba esiqeshini esidlule, unikeze ezinye zezibonelo ezimangalisayo zencwadi yakho, izibonelo zokuthandwa kweminenke kanye, uyazi, amagwababa nokunye.

Nature itself is collaborating with itself. A species is changing its color because it needs to. A species is changing its calls because it also needs to, because of the urban environment that it’s living in. So therefore, if humans are collaborating with nature, all of what you see because of your positive work is entirely possible. And therefore, you know, not that there’s no need for doom and gloom, but really, that can be quashed and, you know, put down further by just collaborating with nature and encouraging that quickly.

[00:09:58] UDkt Nadina Galle: Yebo, yebo. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi senzile. Senzile.

Sesikukhohlwe lokho. Sesilahlekelwe umbono wokuthi imvelo ingumhleli wethu omkhulu. Sesilahlekelwe umbono wokuthi imvelo, ngisho ukuthi, sisanda kubhala ezinye ekuqaleni ekuqaleni kwalesi siqephu, kodwa imvelo idlala indima kuzo zonke izici zokuphila kwethu. Ngicabanga ukuthi ungabeka leyo mpikiswano ngokweqiniso. Futhi noma lokho ku-, uyazi, izinsiza thina. Ukuthi sidinga ukwakha okwethu amakhaya and build our offices, whether that’s in their air quality that we breathe and are reliant on every day, the quality of our water, the places that we go to recreate our food systems are entirely based on a healthy balance in our ecosystems with nature. So there’s. There’s so many different linkages. And ultimately, I think reestablishing that connection with nature is so critical to creating ultimately happy and healthy humans that live on a happy and healthy planet.

[00:10:56] U-Jackie De Burca: 100%. 100% ngivumelana nawe, Nadina. Ngakho-ke ukuqhubekela phambili ku-ecotherapy, okuwukuthi, uyazi, utshelwe. Wakhuluma nangamanye amagama. Iyini ngempela futhi yimaphi amanye amagama esingawazi ngawo?

[00:11:12] UDkt Nadina Galle: Yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi ezinye ezivame kakhulu cishe yizinto ezinjengokwelashwa kwehlathi. Ukugeza ehlathini kungenye. Ingenye evamile, ephuma egameni lesiJapane elithi shinrin yoku, okusho ukuthi ukugeza ehlathini ngokwezwi nezwi.

And Japan really was at the forefront of a lot of this because they saw in, you know, rapid industrial revolution, you know, rapid urbanization, a lot of sedentary jobs, which was quite, you know, different to what Japan had been used to previously. They saw massive spikes in mental health disorders and things like stress and anxiety, things that, you know, we can all relate to. And they saw huge benefits of people being out in nature. And of course, you know, the Japanese elders were like, yeah, well, of course, this is where we came from. Of course you’re going to feel better and more restorative when you’re there. But the government really saw huge potential in that and actually invested large amounts of money to create, you know, to one certify, you know, forest bathing guides to take, you know, even the most, like, staunchest city slickers out into nature, into forests and help them kind of reconnect with the natural earth to hopefully help with some of the, whether it be more severe mental health disorders or just kind of a general sense of malaise that we were talking about just earlier.

Futhi batshale imali eningi kahulumeni, hhayi baze baqeqeshe labo bafana, kodwa futhi benza amapaki angenalutho lapho abantu, ungakwazi ukugawula ngokoqobo, ungafaki zicathulo ehlathini, lezi zindlela ezinhle zokuhamba izintaba ongazilandela, ngoba bakubona lokho, uyazi. , ukuchitha isikhathi emahlathini, kunciphisa amazinga e-cortisol, kunciphisa ukukhathazeka. Kukhona ngisho nezifundo ezikhombisa ukuthi empeleni kwandisa okuthile okubizwa ngama-natural killer cell, abaluleke kakhulu emizimbeni yethu ukulwa nezinto ezinjengomdlavuza. Uyazi, asinazo lezi zinguquko zemizwa kuphela, kodwa izinguquko zomzimba ezenzeka kithi uma siseduze nezihlahla emahlathini. Kunjalo, kunjalo.

[00:13:15] UJackie De Burca: Kuyinto ngempela ukuthi into esobala engokwemvelo ebulala amaseli. Uyazi, ngicabanga ukuthi lokho ngokwakho kwanele.

Ulwazi olwanele kimi, uyazi, ukuthi ngiguqulwe, uma bengingakaguqulwa. Kwanele, akunjalo? Uyazi, uma ucabanga ngazo zonke izifo ezimbi ongase ukwazi, uyazi, uzivikele ngokuba namangqamuzana abulalayo emvelo amaningi, kuyamangalisa.

Nadina, sitshele ngalezo ziqondiso zokwelashwa kwehlathi ezaqeqeshwa e-Chico State.

[00:13:49] Dr Nadina Galle: Yeah, so that was a really interesting case study because Chico State or California University is also commonly known. It sits in Chico county, and Chico is right around the corner from Paradise. So where one of the most devastating wildfires happened in US history, and it sits smack Dab in the middle of wildfire County, a country. And this is been really, really.

I mean, for lack of a better word, interesting. Because what you have there is, you have this community, these huge populations of people that have been absolutely traumatized by what they’ve had to deal with. Their wildfires that have swept through their land, their property, their homes, and in the worst cases, their loved ones. And it has just been so catastrophic and so traumatizing. Many of these, they relate to, actually wild wildfire survivors. They have rates of PTSD in the same levels that you might expect from veterans coming home from war. You know, this is extremely traumatizing. And the thing that’s so odd is that the thing that caused this wildfire, nature itself, right? Maybe the spark wasn’t caused by nature, but a lot of the buildup of the vegetation, you know, cause its ferocity, how catastrophic it became, that. That nature itself, the kind of the. The instigator of this wildfire, can hopefully also be an area for healing for these people as well. And I think that’s. That’s. That’s what. What made this. These. The training of ecotherapy guides at Chico State so interesting. And I got the opportunity to speak to one of them called Blake Ellis. And she, together with 14 other local mental health professionals, were trained to become certified ecotherapy guides. And the goal was really to then provide comfort to these communities that were impacted by wildfires. And when Blake was telling me about one of these sessions, she was saying that what was so interesting is that for the first time, many of them were able to see trees and these downed trees and the debris that was left, not as this reminder and symbol of death and decay, but actually as opportunity and hope for the future. And I think that’s something that’s this beautiful parallel that hopefully we can relate back to other fascinating facets of our life as well. And one of the things that Blake said that really stuck with me is that, you know, she keeps. She kept saying when she was telling me about these things is, you know, I am. I am simply a guide. It is the forest that is the therapist. And that is, I think, something that is so central to ecotherapy and forest therapy is seeing the forest as the therapist that it is, and that these individuals that are these certified guides, they are the facilitators that can help take you through. And there’s many different exercises. You know, sometimes it’s simply sitting and meditating in a forest environment. Sometimes it is literally hugging a tree and coming into contact with some of these. You know physiological changes that can happen to your body. Sometimes it’s taking a silent walk, sometimes it’s actually just having your therapy session, but you’re walking through the forest as you’re doing it. So there’s many different ways that forest bathing and forest therapy can take place, but the goal is that this venue, the forest, really provides the mechanisms for a lot of this healing.

[00:17:16] UJackie De Burca: Ngiyalithanda iqiniso, njengoba usho, Nadina, ukuthi ihlathi elingumelaphi. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kubalulekile, uyazi, hhayi kuphela kulabo abaye bayothola ukwelashwa, kodwa futhi nangomqondo wanoma yikuphi ukwelashwa nhlobo. Uyazi, futhi, i-ego yomuntu ukuthi, o, umlaphi wenza lokhu, lokhuya nokunye okunye noma ubani. Kodwa empeleni, ekupheleni kosuku, umelaphi ufana nomsele kuphela, uyazi, iyithuluzi. Lowo muntu uyithuluzi ekusizeni isimo sokuphulukisa. Ngakho-ke, ngibona ihlathi njengomelaphi, ngicabanga ukuthi ngokwalo nje ukuphulukisa, ngicabanga.

[00:17:54] Dr Nadina Galle: Yeah. And I think we have to. It’s also important to remind the listeners here, is that we talk about forest therapy, we talk about ecotherapy, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be in a forest. Of course, that’s better. But Blake also loved to tell me this story about her teacher who taught her to be a guide. Loves to tell this story that he actually did a successful session, forced guide therapy session, in the middle of a parking lot under the shade of a single tree. So it is very possible to do this with a single tree, even in the middle of a parking lot, you can have this connection to nature. And I think, again, kind of reinstating why urban nature is so important and why we have to be careful not to write off urban nature as not quote, unquote, real nature or effective nature for these kinds of things. A lot of these sessions can take part in parking lots with single trees, if you’re really forced to. But otherwise, backyards, urban parks, manicured gardens, you know, there, as long as it’s some kind of natural setting, you can actually start to feel a lot of these benefits, you know, and if you have access to a beautiful old growth forest, of course host your session there. But even if that’s not possible, you can still feel the same kind of sense of grounding that other places are able to offer.

[00:19:12] UJackie De Burca: Ngakho-ke, yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kuyiseluleko esihle ngokusobala. Uyazi, uma sibuka nje, khipha igama elithi ihlathi, imvelo kuphela engumelaphi. Futhi noma yikuphi lapho singathola khona lokho, niyazi, iNgconyana yemvelo. Uma kukuncane nje, kulungile futhi. Ngakho ngicabanga ukuthi iseluleko esihle kakhulu leso.

Unezifundo eziyisibonelo ezithakaselayo ozivezile kule ngxenye yencwadi. Ungakwazi ukukhuluma nathi ngezinye zalezo, Nadina?

[00:19:40] UDkt Nadina Galle: Yebo, akhona.

Baningi impela. Futhi enye yezintandokazi zami yilo mbono wokuthi izihlahla, ngokusebenzisa lolu hlobo oluthile lobuchwepheshe olubizwa ngokuthi umsindo we-geolocated, zingakhuluma nathi ngempela.

It was this project by theatre director Puk van Dijk in the north of Amsterdam. Amsterdam north is this rapidly developing neighborhood which I think a lot of post industrial cities can relate to. It’s an area that is really dealing with, you know, rampant changes, gentrification, drug use, pushing out certain demographics, pushing in a new demographic, dealing with, sadly, a lot of deforestation to make way for a lot of this development. And Buch van Dyck moved to this neighborhood after she had a very nomadic childhood, lived all over the world. And when she had a child of her own, she wanted more stability. And she looked for stability at her tree neighbors, the ginkgos, the ashes, the oaks, the maples that she shared her new neighborhood with. She was really inspired by them and she wanted to understand her neighbors more. So she started to interview some of her human neighbors and she started see a lot of parallels, right? She would talk to a new neighbor who was a retired bodybuilder, and he was complaining about the fact that this highway that had been expanded was causing his asthma to get worse and worse. And he was dealing with a lot of issues. And she was wondering, she was like, I wonder if the trees that are planted next, that highway are dealing with similar issues. She talked to another neighbor who complained how lonely she was, especially during the pandemic and afterwards too, that she missed these talks with a lot of her neighbors after they had passed away. And she saw this tree in the middle of a square that was all by itself. And she was like, I wonder if that tree deals with loneliness in the same way as humans might be able to relate to. Long story short, she created this immersive audio tour of these six talking trees. She called it the Giants of North. And she was able to use a lot of these interviews that she had done with human neighbors and translate their stories to these trees. And she actually used local voice actors, actors that were from Amsterdam north, to put on the create these characters and put on these voices for these trees. And it didn’t work like a typical audio tour where you would have to scan a QR code every time you’re at a new stop, you were just able to press play, go on this walk. And the gps, your GPS location would actually guide you either to the right or either to the left based on where you were. And if you were close enough to one of the trees, it would actually start talking to you. And this just meant for such an immersive experience because, for example, in this tree that was dealing with a lot of pollution, it actually started coughing before you could even see it. You would start to hear this coughing, you would turn the corner and there was the tree right next to the road, dealing with these issues. And I just thought it was such a fantastic example to, in a really creative way, show urbanites the plight of city trees and what they’re dealing with and at the same time provide people that, yeah, that normally wouldn’t have that kind of. That interaction, that connection with trees to be able to relate to them more. And I think that’s something so critical that we’ve touched on in the past. The more you’re able to understand and relate to something, the more you’re able to care for it and ultimately protect it as well.

Futhi njengoba ngibhala encwadini, lolu hambo lube yimpumelelo kangangokuthi basebenzela ukulwenza lufakwe unomphela. Futhi empeleni, umhleli omkhulu wedolobha lase-Amsterdam uthathe uhambo olulalelwayo lwe-Giants of North njengokulalela okuphoqelekile kwawo wonke umuntu emnyangweni wakhe.

[00:23:30] UJackie De Burca: Indaba emnandi kangaka futhi angikaze ngibe. Angizange ngiye e-Amsterdam isikhathi eside kabi, kodwa empeleni, kungenza ngicabange ukuthi kufanele ngibuyele e-Amsterdam nakanjani ukuze ngizwe izihlahla zikhuluma.

[00:23:42] Dr Nadina Galle: Unfortunately, the trees only speak Dutch at the moment, so you’ll have to a little bit. But I would love. I said that book right away. I was like, you need to get a translated version of this because this would be. It’s also just like, I’ve talked to interpreters so people that their work, you know, whether they work for national parks or museum, their work is to translate, you know, disseminate knowledge and information to the general public. Could be history, it could be natural history, all kinds of different things. I was like, this is such a beautiful way to do interpretation. Like, it’s so replicable. Like, I would love to see something like this in every city around the world, like, even just as a tourist attraction. I think it’s such a cool idea.

[00:24:23] Jackie De Burca: I think it’s a really cool idea. I mean, I think. Thinking out loud, really, Nadina, I think that those trees, like my birth city of Dublin, you know, those trees that are by the canal in Dublin. Surely they can tell not only their own experience of the changing, you know, the changing sort of sights and scenes and vibes of Dublin over the last, you know, couple of decades or whatever. So they could probably express like, their own, you know, I’m relatable as a tree, but also give, like, visitors a little bit of the history of that area at the same time.

[00:24:56] UDkt Nadina Galle: O, yebo. Ngempela. Futhi lowo empeleni umbhalo ochazayo weziqhwaga zasenyakatho empeleni uqala, ngikholwa ukuthi uqala ngokuthi, o, izinto ezibonwe yimidondoshiya yethu. Ngoba uma ucabanga lezi zihlahla ezindala bese zikhuluma, uyazi, izithandani ezixabanayo, ukuphahlazeka phakathi kweVespa nebhayisikili ngehora lesithathu ekuseni, uyazi, ingane igibela, uyazi, zonke lezi zinto ezahlukene. umlando. Ngisho ukuthi, uma sinenhlanhla, sinezihlahla emadolobheni ethu, eziyizinduna zekhulu, ezingaphezu kweminyaka eyi-150, 200 ubudala. Ngiqonde ukuthi lezi zihlahla zazikhona singakazalwa futhi ngethemba ukuthi sizoba khona sekukudala sihambile.

[00:25:34] UJackie De Burca: Ngethemba. Ngethemba. Kepha umqondo omuhle kakhulu futhi ngethemba, njengoba usho, uzosakazeka kakhulu, uyazi, ngoba uhlakaniphe ngokuphelele.

Heading to Melbourne, Australia, there’s also an email, a tree campaign. How does that work?

[00:25:50] Dr Nadina Galle: Yeah, speaking of projects that are so easily replicable in cities around the world, there is a campaign called the Email the Tree Campaign, but it didn’t. It didn’t start quite like what it sounds. Essentially, it started. It all started with Yvonne Lynch. She was the head of the Urban Forester and Urban Forestry and Urban Ecology team for the City of Melbourne. And what she was struggling with is that every day she would get emails, she would get phone calls, she’d get stopped in the street, her colleagues would get stopped in the street to get to answer questions about trees in people’s neighborhoods. Right, like this.

Lesi sihlahla sibukeka sigula. Uzoyibheka nini? Sizogawulwa nini lesi sihlahla? Uzowubheka nini umonakalo kulesi sihlahla? Lokhu, uyazi, ikhebula likagesi liza eduze kakhulu namagatsha alesi sihlahla. Yonke le, uyazi, imibuzo, ungaze uyibize ngezikhalo ngezinye izikhathi zazifika zingahambisani. Futhi owokuqala, niyazi, umbuzo owawuyohlala kufanele unikeze impendulo kuwo wawuthi, awu, yimuphi umuthi? Bese-ke belandela le ngxoxo ekhungathekisa ngendlela emangalisayo yokuthi, ingaphesheya kwaleli kheli, kodwa akusona leso sihlahla, yilesi sihlahla. Uyazi, isakhamuzi. Bangase bangazazi izinhlobo zesihlahla. Ngakho bazokwenza konke okusemandleni abo ukuyichaza. Uyazi, yilena enesiqu namaqabunga futhi, uyazi, bekuyisimo esicasulayo, esicasula kakhulu u-Yvonne neqembu lakhe.

Ngakho-ke akwenza wazama uhlelo lokuthola inombolo kamazisi yesihlahla ngasinye, ababevele benayo. Kodwa hlanganisa leyo nombolo ye-ID kuyo. Ekhelini le-imeyili kuleyo nombolo ye-ID, isihlahla ngasinye manje sase sinekheli le-imeyili elilodwa. Ukuze leyo nombolo kamazisi itholakale kumephu. Ungasondeza eduze, ungathola isihlahla, bese ubona ngokushesha ikheli le-imeyili, futhi ungathumela umbuzo wakho mayelana naleso sihlahla kulelo kheli le-imeyili elithile. Futhi lokho kwasebenza kahle njengethuluzi lokuphatha kwaze kwaba yilapho u-Yvonne eqala ukuqaphela okuthile okungajwayelekile, okwakuwukuthi wayengazitholi izikhalo nemibuzo ngokulungiswa kwesihlahla ebhokisini lakhe lemiyalezo engenayo, kodwa kunalokho wayethunyelelwa izincwadi zothando ezihlahleni.

Babethola zonke izinhlobo zamanothi ahlukene othando. Uyazi, izinto zithi, 10087898 othandekayo, Bengilokhu ngibuka amagatsha akho kanye namahlamvu akho efasiteleni lami. ngihlezi phansi komthunzi wakho. Uyazi, unginikeze induduzo ngezikhathi zomzabalazo wangempela empilweni yami. Yazi, uqobo, ujulile, uyazi, ukuvuma izono ngisho nangamandla nenduduzo abayithola kulezi zihlahla.

Niyazi, abanye kwakuwuhlobo oluxakile futhi oluhlekisayo, niyazi, bethi, niyazi, babethandana nalesi sihlahla, kodwa, niyazi, bathandana nalesi esinye isihlahla. Futhi lokhu kubhekwa njengokuphinga kwesihlahla? Uyazi, kwakunjalo. Yavele yagcwala indlela. Futhi ngesinye isikhathi, niyazi, ekuqaleni, sengathi, babephendula ngoba babecabanga ukuthi kwakuhlekisa ngempela, futhi babephendula sengathi bawumuthi. U-Yvonne nethimba lakhe. Kodwa ngesinye isikhathi, yavele yaphuma esandleni ngoba ayizange nje, niyazi, yangena igciwane phakathi kwaseMelbourne, kodwa yabe seyangena igciwane e-Australia, kwase kuba yigciwane emhlabeni wonke. Ngakho-ke bekunalawa makheli e-imeyili amiswe kwezinye izihlahla emadolobheni emhlabeni jikelele abethumela i-imeyili ezihlahleni zaseMelbourne, bethumela ama-imeyili abazala babo nabangane babo emhlabeni wonke. Futhi nje, njengokuthi, ngokuphelele, kuhlanya ngokuphelele. Futhi kwaba njalo nje. Naphezu, uyazi, ubungako bayo, kwakuyisibonelo esihle kangangokuthi, ngiyakholwa, kukhona lokhu, ngiyakholwa, uthando lwangaphakathi kanye nothando lwezihlahla esihlanganyela amadolobha ethu nazo.

Kodwa ayizange ibe nayo ngempela indlela yokuphuma kuze kube manje. Futhi engikuthanda kakhulu ngayo ukuthi iyaphindaphindeka futhi izoba nje. Kuyindlela enhle yokubonisa lolo thando nothando olukhona lwezihlahla. Futhi ngilokhu ngithi ku-Yvonne, bengithi, udinga, uyazi, wenze okungcono kakhulu, futhi ukushicilele encwadini enezithombe ezinhle zalezi zihlahla ezahlukene kanye nalezi zinhlamvu zothando. Ngoba imnandi nje lendaba.

[00:29:47] UJackie De Burca: Indaba enhle ngempela. Kunjalo ngempela. Manje siqhubekela kubuchwepheshe obusetshenziswa yi-US White House kanye nokutshalwa kwezihlahla okukhulu okungenzi nzuzo ukuze kubhekwane nokungafani kwezempilo. Kuyaziwa ngokuthi Izikolo Zemvelo. Ungakwazi ukukhuluma nathi ngakho, Nadina?

[00:30:06] Dr Nadina Galle: Absolutely, yeah. So Nature Score is very different to something that, you know, professionals have done in the past, municipalities have done in the past, which is doing an assessment of the greenery that you have in a city. So in the past this was done by viewing something called the NDVI or the Normalized Difference Vegetation Index. And that worked really well, but it worked really well for doing one thing which was mapping the greenery in a city. But we know now that the health, that the health benefits that we get from nature is not just greenery. In fact, it also comes in the form of water bodies, of beaches, of open fields, of forests. You know, all these different natural elements play a role in our, in our health. And in this NDVI analysis, things like sand and rock and water actually get a score of zero because they’re not green. And we know now from research that these areas do provide health benefits. So Nature Score was developed as an alternative to that. It was developed by a startup in Oregon called NatureQuant. And you can kind of sense it in the name. Their mission is to quantify nature. And the reason why they want to do that is because they wholeheartedly believe that if we can give nature a number, we’re going to be better off trying to get the investment for it and find and really fight for its rightful place, especially in urban environments. So Nature Score, essentially what it does is you can pick any static address anywhere in Canada and the U.S. and they’re working on Europe at the moment, and you can get your Nature Score. So basically that takes, it takes a radius of 500 meters from around your house. That is the distance that we know from research that the nature is going to have an impact on the health of you living in that specific address at that place. And it gives you a score. You know, 100 is, you know, you’re, you’re in the middle of a forest, you know, that is, that is, you’re in a nature rich environment. 80 to 100, you know, 60, 60 to 80 is something called nature adequate. And Then it goes into nature, I don’t know the medium one. And then it goes into your habit, nature deficit, or you’re in an area that has nature deficiency.

Futhi konke lokhu kubhekwa amaqembu amaningi ahlukene. Kube mnandi ukuthi ubani oseqalile ukusebenzisa le mephu. Ekuqaleni, niyazi, i-NatureQuant yayicabanga ukuthi yayizosetshenziselwa izinto ezinjengomasipala, njengokunquma ukuthi ukungenelela kwemvelo kufanele kwenzeke kuphi nokuzama ukuqhamuka nendlela elinganayo yokusabalalisa lezo zinsiza, niyazi, kunokuba nje ukusabalalise, uyazi, uhlaza olwengeziwe ezindaweni ezinomsindo kakhulu, ovame ukuba yizindawo ezicebile kakhulu ngoba banesikhathi esiningi ezandleni zabo ukuze bakwazi ukukhononda ngezinto, besakaza lezo zinsiza ngempela. ezinye zezindawo ezivame ukuzuzisa umphakathi ngokwezomnotho kanye nezindawo ezintula imvelo. Futhi lokho kusengenye yamacala okusetshenziswa. Kodwa engicabanga ukuthi kubuye kwathakazelisa ukuthi isiqala ukusetshenziswa ngabadayisi bomshwalense, abomshuwalense wezempilo. Ngakho-ke uma ubheka, uyazi, uma uhlala endaweni ecebile ngemvelo, siyazi ukuthi empeleni uzoba nezinkinga zempilo ezincane. Ngakho-ke abanye bomshwalense wezempilo abanolwazi olusha, singakwazi yini ukusiza abantu abahlala ezindaweni ezicebile zemvelo, bangakwazi yini ukukhokha imali ephansi yomshwalense? Iyiphi indlela ethakazelisa ngempela yokuthanda, ukuqhubeka nokugqugquzela ukutshalwa kwezimali kwendalo kwezinye zalezi zindawo eziphansi zenhlalo-mnotho, ezinenzuzo, nezincishwe amathuba ukuthi singakwazi yini ukwenza lezo zinto zilingane kakhulu futhi? Ukutshala imali kumakhelwane endaweni yokutshala izihlahla kusho ukukhokha kancane ngomshwalense wakho. Ngike ngezwa izindaba zokuthi isetshenziswa abaphathi bamaphoyisa bezama ukuqonda ukuxhumana phakathi kwemvelo emadolobheni abo kanye nobugebengu ezindaweni zabo, emadolobheni abo, okunezixhumanisi ezithakazelisayo kakhulu hhayi izimbangela, kodwa ukuhlobana ongakuthola lapho futhi. Bese sibona izikhungo zikahulumeni ezinkulu ezifana nabaphathi be-White House, kodwa futhi ezinkulu, ezinkulu ezingenzi nzuzo njengesisekelo se-Arbor Day, owaziyo ukuthi ingenye yezinhlangano ezinkulu zokutshala izihlahla emhlabeni, empeleni zisebenzisa imephu yesikwele yemvelo ukunquma. lapho kufanele batshale futhi benze lezi zindlela zokungenelela zokutshala. Ngoba siyazi ngocwaningo ukuthi ungcono kakhulu ekutshaleni isihlahla esisodwa emgwaqweni ongenaso, uma uqhathanisa nokutshala isihlahla esingeziwe emgwaqeni osevele unenqwaba. Unjalo nje, uzothola izinzuzo eziningi ezengeziwe, kungakhathaliseki ukuthi zihlobene nesimo sezulu noma impilo nokuphila kahle okuhlobene naleso sihlahla esisodwa. Ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kuyicala elithokozisayo lokusebenzisa. Kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi okubaluleke kakhulu, ukubheka imvelo ngelinye iso. Kubheka imvelo kusuka yiziphi izici zemvelo ezisekela impilo futhi zinquma izinqumo zethu zenqubomgomo ngokusekelwe kulolo lwazi?

[00:35:14] UJackie De Burca: Yebo, kukhulu lokho. Ngokusobala, uma abanye bomshuwalense bekucabangela, lokho kukhulu.

Okunye okwangihlaba umxhwele kakhulu ukuthi ngisho namachibi angasigcina siphila isikhathi eside. Ngikuthola kumangalisa lokho, njengoba ngenza uhlelo lokusebenza olunikezwa udokotela. Manje ubani owadala lokhu futhi kwenzani lokho?

[00:35:37] UDkt Nadina Galle: Yebo, ngakho-ke Umthamo Wemvelo uwuhlelo lokusebenza lwemithi yemvelo olwakhiwe phezu kwe-Nature Score. Futhi empeleni ukuthi isebenza kanjani iwuhlelo lokusebenza olusebenza ngemuva ocingweni lwakho. Ngakho-ke akulona uhlelo lokusebenza oluklanyelwe ukuthi unamathiselwe esikrinini. Isebenza ngemuva kwefoni yakho kufana ne-pedometer noma i-Fitbit noma ikhawunta yesinyathelo engayenza efonini yakho. Futhi empeleni ekwenzayo ukusebenzisa indawo yakho ye-GPS kuleyo mephu ye-Nature Score, ngokuyisisekelo ihlanganisa ukuze ingabambeleli emininingwaneni yendawo yakho, kodwa ihlanganisa nsuku zonke ukuthi ubukade ungaphakathi imizuzu emingaki, mingaki imizuzu obunayo. babengaphandle, futhi mingaki imizuzu owachayeka ngayo kuleyo mizuzu ungaphandle.

Futhi lokhu okwenziwa yilokhu empeleni kukunikeza lokho kugudluza, ngethemba lokuthi uzophumela ngaphandle kakhulu, njengoba uFitbit ebengenza, ukukusiza ufinyelele leyo sinyathelo sesinyathelo esiyizi-10,000 ngosuku.

Umthamo Wemvelo, ucwaningo olungcono kakhulu esinalo, lukhombisa ukuthi sidinga ubuncane bemizuzu eyi-120, amahora amabili esichayeke emvelweni isonto ngalinye. Ngakho-ke lokho isilinganiso salokho, okufana nemizuzu eyi-17, 20 ngosuku, ekuthola kuleso silinganiso esincane, ngakho-ke ukugudluza ukuthi uphumele ngaphandle uvezwe imvelo okungenani imizuzu engama-20 ngosuku. Ngakho-ke inemephu yesikwele yemvelo, eyimbudumbudu kakhulu, ekwaziyo ukukhombisa, uyazi, uthola ukufana, uthola iphuzu eligcwele lokuba phakathi nehlathi, uthola iphoyinti elinguhhafu lokuba sebhishi. esihlahleni esinemigwaqo emikhulu. Futhi uthola amaphuzu anguziro uma umi phakathi nendawo yokupaka. Futhi lowo umehluko phakathi kwesikhathi sangaphandle nesikhathi esivezwe emvelweni.

And to your point, Jackie, beaches and lakes also get high points because we know from research that those things are very health supporting as well. And then the question becomes, okay, well, you know, how can we use this app? How can we integrate this? I think for some people it’s going to feel a little bit shocking that we now need an app to tell us to go outside. And I would say for the people where that feels shocking to, maybe you don’t need it, right? Maybe that’s something that’s so integral into your daily habits that you don’t need something like Nature Dose. But I would argue there’s a vast majority of people who do need that nudge to go outside, much like they need the nudge to take 10,000 steps a day. The importance of Nature Dose is it’s not just about how many steps you take every day. It’s also about where you take those steps a day. And this is a nudge to hopefully take those steps in a nature area so that we can really benefit from all the beautiful advantages that nature offers us. But I also see potential use cases here. For example, like a collaboration, for example, with your mental health practitioner. I talk about a case study in the book where they actually you are using Nature Dose as a warning sign, typically for those that are underage teenagers that are dealing with severe depression and severe mental illness as a warning sign that that information that they haven’t been outside in X amount of days is actually being sent to their mental health practitioner to know that they have to do extra checkup and welfare checks on those individuals, which, yes, can feel big brother to some. But we’re talking about underage teenagers dealing with severe mental health illness. We want to make sure that they’re getting the help that they deserve. Another use case is actually for big corporate partners. Right? In this age of working remotely and working in kind of this hybrid fashion, can we actually encourage employees to get outside, taking walking meetings, getting outside during their lunch break in places of nature? Because we know those employees are going to be more productive, take less sick days, and have less signs of burnout. So I think we’re only at the cusp of understanding how we might potentially be able to use this. I think there’s a lot of interesting use cases. And ultimately, I think my biggest hope, and I talk about it also in the epilogue of the book, is that apps like this will probably become obsolete one day. In fact, I hope that they do because we’ll have created.

Sizobe sidale izilungiselelo zasemadolobheni kanye nezindawo zasemadolobheni ezicebile kakhulu ngemvelo kangangokuthi akudingeki sicabange kabili mayelana nokuthola izinyathelo zethu ezingu-10,000 ngosuku noma imizuzu yethu engu-20 noma ihora lemvelo ngosuku, ngoba kuzoba njalo. egxile emikhubeni yethu yansuku zonke kanye nendlela esihamba ngayo ezimpilweni zethu zansuku zonke.

[00:39:56] UJackie De Burca: Yebo, ngiqonde ukuthi, uvusa umcabango wami futhi ngoba ngisekhasini elifanayo nelakho ngalowo mqondo, ngoba nginombono obonakalayo wokungabi kude kakhulu komugqa, wena. yazi, izindawo zasemadolobheni esikhuluma ngazo zizoba luhlaza kakhulu. Futhi ngiyacabanga futhi ngethemba ukuthi abantu Abahlala kulezo zindawo esikhathini esingekude kakhulu esizayo bazobheka emuva emlandweni futhi bahambe, oh, Nkulunkulu wami, njengokuthi, abantu babephila kanjani kulawo mahlathi kakhonkolo ngaphambili?

[00:40:26] Dr Nadina Galle: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think the thing that’s interesting with cities is that I think people are very quick to look back on how cities used to be and be very negative about how they used to be. But the fact is that cities are such a successful social experiment, They’ve continuously adapted and molded to what the needs and the wishes were of the urban population at that time. Right when the first combined sewer systems were integrated, you know, it was a hallelujah because cities were dealing with open sewers in the canals, with cholera outbreaks. You know, it was, it was, it was dirty and stinky and awful. And combined sewer systems provided, you know, massive improvement to that. Now we’re looking 100 years on, we’re looking at those systems and being like, in times of extreme rainfall, those can be really, really bad because we can lead to combined sewer overflo flows, which is, you know, having terrible impacts on our water quality and our own public health and safety. Okay. So we’re looking at ways that we can adopt more green infrastructure and more kind of sponge city tactics to be able to absorb much of that rainwater so that the combined sewer system in areas where, you know, it cannot be separated because it’s too expensive and too difficult. You know, we’re able to actually absorb a lot of that rainwater so that the combined sewer system is under. Is under less duress in those areas. I think we have to continuously look at how can we adapt and change to the needs of the urban population in 2024. You know, there was a time with the rise of the car that it was seen as a celebration to have highways smack dab through the middle of our cities. We think differently now. We’re seeing, you know, we’re having some critical conversations about whether it makes sense to designate so much space to roadways and parking spots. Why would we have them on the ground level? Why can’t we put them underground? Why can’t we do things like car sharing to reduce the pressure of on the land and instead use that area for public space and ideally green those spaces. So we’re constantly looking at changing, you know, the needs and the wants of our urban population. And indeed, to your point, Jackie, I think we’re going to look back and say, how do we ever live in those concrete jungles? And we’re going to look forward to the future and see hopefully a very optimistic nature, rich urban environment that is so beneficial to every single aspect of human life and all the other species that we share our cities with.

[00:42:54] UJackie De Burca: Impela, ngokuphelele. Ngakho mina nawe sobabili sizizwa ngaleyo ndlela, okuyinto enhle kakhulu. Kodwa ngeshwa, kunabantu abaningi, ikakhulukazi abantu abasha esibaziyo, obaziyo, uqobo kanye. Futhi nje ngomsebenzi owenzayo nami engiwenzayo, ongenalo ithemba ngekusasa ngenxa yokuthi, sizothi, ukuguquka kwesimo sezulu kanye izinto eziphilayo ukulahlekelwa. Futhi umhlaba njengoba unjalo njengamanje, lena into osekuyisihloko esikhulu namuhla ngoba laba bantu bayizizukulwane zethu ezizayo futhi bakulesi simo. Amaphesenti amakhulu abo, isibonelo, mhlawumbe, mhlawumbe azama ukuzibulala. Futhi njengoba ushilo mayelana nomthamo wemvelo, vele, empilweni yomuntu osemusha, lolo hlelo lokusebenza lubaluleke kakhulu ngoba okungenani noma ubani owelapha ukudangala kwakhe nanoma yikuphi ukuphazamiseka abhekene nakho uzokwazi ukukubona. Awu, bukani, niyazi, aniphumanga emvelweni, njengokuthi, izinsuku ezinhlanu noma okuthize. Kuyisihloko esikhulu. Gina, ithini imibono yakho?

[00:43:55] Dr Nadina Galle: Yeah, I think I try to very much operate from the philosophy that when we look at the world, and specifically at our cities through the lens of nature, we operate from the perspective of abundance and of creation and of hope and of optimism. And I think that’s something that natural areas provide. They provide that area for respite, to restore our minds, to find ease and to hopefully find relief from some of the pain that we’re feeling. And that’s something that I believe is so critical, especially in this age of climate anxiety and doom and gloom, to continue looking at our world through the lens of nature and creating more nature, creating more spaces for nature, for us to interact with nature, for connections with nature. Because I do believe that impacts every single aspect of our lives, that of our parents, our grandparents, of our children, and. And for those of you that are feeling like, okay, sure, easy to say, but what am I supposed to do in my apartment on the sixth floor? I only have a balcony. I would say one that balcony is still. Even if it’s only a windowsill, you never know who’s looking up at that balcony. Greening that balcony is already providing you with a ton of benefits and also any passersbys. But I would also invite you to look critically at. Where do you spend the majority of your time. I bet you it’s probably not in that apartment. It might be on the road that you commute. It might be at your office space. It might be at your corporate campus, your university campus, your child’s School, your place of faith, your church. These are all areas and cities that actually tend to be on private ground that we actually have a lot of control over what we can do to change the face of these landscapes. And I would encourage you to get involved with that. Take stock of what’s around you, especially within that 500 meter radius of your house. Think local and act locally as well, because that is ultimately, if everybody did that within a 500 meter radius of their own home, our cities would look like a very different place.

[00:46:03] UJackie De Burca: Bazokwenza ngempela. Manje, bengizoqedela ngokukucela noma yimaphi amazwi okugcina ezeluleko, kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi ucishe ukwenze lokho ngokwakho. Kodwa ingabe akhona, noma yimaphi amanye, uyazi, amagugu amancane ongathanda ukukunikeza ukuze uwaqedele?

[00:46:17] UDkt Nadina Galle: Uchungechunge olunezingxenye ezine, mhlawumbe izeluleko ezincane kanye nenselelo encane. Ngakho-ke ngikwenzile, ngithe kuwe ukuthi uhlole ukuthi yini ekuleyo ndawo engamamitha angu-500, kodwa mhlawumbe ngingathanda ukumema bonke abalaleli ukuthi bahlonze okungenani izinhlobo eziyi-10 zezitshalo noma izilwane endaweni engamamitha angama-500 ukusuka ekhaya labo. Futhi uma ungathanda, ungasebenzisa eyodwa yalezi zinhlelo zokusebenza esixoxile ngazo, i-Earth Snap, i-PlantSnap, i-iNaturalist, futhi ubandakanye umuntu. I-City Nature Challenge, uma kunjalo, lokho kuvamise ukuba sekupheleni kuka-April, ekuqaleni kukaMeyi, okuyindlela enhle kakhulu ngoba lapho-ke awugcini ngokuhlonza lezi zinhlobo zezilwane futhi uhlole lokho okukuzungezile, kodwa ungakwazi nokuhlangana nabanye abantu. abanentshisekelo kulokhu futhi. Futhi ungamangala ukuthi kaningi kangakanani uma ngiyeka ukuthatha isithombe, niyazi, imbali ethile enhle yeqabunga lesihlahla noma, niyazi, ngizama ukuthola amazwibela ovemvane oluthile kukhamera yami. Ungamangala ukuthi ingakanani isikebhe esiphihliza iqhwa okusho ukuthi, ngokushesha kangakanani, uyazi, abantu bayakubona lokho futhi babuze imibuzo ngakho. Uyazi wenzani noma ubukani? Uyazi, isikebhe esihle kangaka kanye naleli thuba elihle lokuxhumana nabantu, engicabanga ukuthi silidinga kakhulu emhlabeni wanamuhla, ikakhulukazi emadolobheni ethu.

[00:47:39] UJackie De Burca: Leso iseluleko esinembile nesimangalisayo, Nadina. Kube yinjabulo enkulu ukuba nezingxoxo zethu ezihlukahlukene. Futhi uyazi, ngicabanga ukuthi yonke into oyishilo izoba usizo kakhulu kubalaleli futhi ngikujabulele kakhulu ukushutha kwethu ndawonye.

[00:47:57] UDkt Nadina Galle: Nami nginakho ngempela. Jackie, ngibonga kakhulu kubalaleli ngokulalela kanye nawe, Jackie, ngokufuna ukuchitha isikhathi esiningi kulezi zihloko ezibaluleke ngempela. Ngithemba ukuthi abalaleli bakho bathole okuningi.

[00:48:09] UJackie De Burca: Unenani kuyo futhi ngikholwa ukuthi bazokwenza. Nadina, ngiyabonga kakhulu.