S4, E22: Ireland’s Retrofit Race — with Dr. Ciarán Byrne (SEAI)

Okulotshiweyo

Lokhu kukhiqizwa ngokwedijithali futhi kungase kuqukathe amaphutha athile.

[00:00:00] This is Constructive Voices. Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news, views and expert interviews.

[00:00:14] : Siyakwamukela ku-Constructive Voices, lapho sikhuluma khona nabantu abaguqula izinhloso ezinkulu zesimo sezulu zibe uguquko lwangempela lomhlaba. Ungazizwa usekhaya namuhla. Sise-Ireland futhi sikhuluma nge-retrofits, ukuthuthukiswa okwenza indawo yakho ifudumale, ishibhile ukuyisebenzisa futhi ihlanzeke iplanethi. Uma uke walwa negumbi lokulala elibandayo noma wabuka izikweletu zakho zamandla. Yo, yo, le ngeyakho.

Our guest is Dr. Ciarán Byrne from the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland.

Unqamula i-jargon futhi asibonise ukuthi yini okufanele siyenze kuqala, yini ngempela ehambisa inaliti kanye nendlela yokugwema amaphutha avamile. Sizongena ekuhlukaniseni okusebenza ngempela, amaphampu okushisa ngaphandle kwezibonelelo zekhanda kanye nezimali eziluhlaza ezenza izibalo zihlanganiswe, nezindlela ezihlakaniphile zamakhaya amagugu amadala. Uzozwa izinganekwane zichithiwe, izeluleko zesiNgisi ezicacile ongenza ngazo kanye nendlela elula ongayilandela noma ngabe usulungele ukuthuthukiswa okugcwele noma isinyathelo esisodwa esiqinile.

Kulungile, asingene kukho. Bheka kuwe, Jackie.

[00:01:16] UJackie De Burca: NginoDkt. Ciarán Byrne lapha ovela kwa-Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland futhi sike sakhuluma cishe unyaka odlule, emuva ngo-2024, kodwa-ke kuningi okwenzekayo okwamanje, Ciarán, okungaba kuhle ukuthi sikuxoxe.

[00:01:30] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Ngiyabonga, Jackie, ngokuba nami. Yebo, futhi sekuyisikhathi sokuthi ubambe iqhaza ngoba, uyazi, indawo ematasatasa, njengoba usho, futhi kuningi okwenzekayo futhi kuningi okufanele kwenziwe futhi. Ngakho, yebo, ngijabulele ukuba nengxoxo nawe namuhla.

[00:01:41] UJackie De Burca: Kumnandi. Ngibe nomcabango oyinqaba namhlanje ekuseni njengoba siphuma ohlotsheni olulodwa lomculo. Bengicabanga, ake ucabange ukube othile emuva kuma-80s wayethe kithi, niyazi, ake senze inzuzo. Besingeke sazi ukuthi lokho kwakuyini ngaleso sikhathi, akunjalo?

[00:01:53] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Cha, ngiyazi, kuyahlekisa, ngiyayithanda indlela osho ngayo izinhlobo njengokungathi siwukugxekwa kwefilimu. Sibadala. Ngicabanga, Jackie, yilokho ozama ukukusho ngesizotha. Yebo, ngiyacabanga. Ingabe thina millet akunakwenzeka ngemva boomers, millennials noma into enjalo?

[00:02:05] UJackie De Burca: X, ngokusobala.

And AI thinks we’re brilliant because when I. Well, I’ve googled it, Gen X of all sorts of interesting things to us. But yeah, so retrofit. My funny thing was, you know, if somebody had thrown out that word back in the 80s, it would have been like, is that something to do with the record or something?

[00:02:23] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, mhlawumbe ngabe uke wacabanga, uyazi, Ingabe bekungamagundane aseBoomtown? Yini abafana abanebhulukwe le-tartan, lezo zinsizwa zezinwele ezinkulu namadevu, uyazi, kunjalo.

[00:02:33] UJackie De Burca: Akukhona ukuthi ukubuyisela kabusha kuyini. Kulabo bantu abangazi, ungathanda ukuchaza kahle ukuthi kuyini ukubuyisela kabusha?

[00:02:40] Dr. Ciarán Byrne: Yeah, it’s great. It’s a home energy upgrade. So retrofitting is an existing house. And I’m going to talk primarily about the domestic side of things. Houses and apartments, homes. And what we do is a home energy upgrade. So it’s increasing the energy performance of a home. And what that basically means is you’re insulating it. Most houses have kind of four walls or roof and whatever, doors, windows. You insulate the fabric, external fabric of the house and then you change the kind of underlying heating system which in many cases in Ireland is fossil fuel based, which is oil or gas or sometimes coal or peat, and putting in a renewable heating system such as a heat pump. But we’re going into existing homes of which there’s approximately 1, what was there, 2.2 million homes, I think, according to the CSO, of which about 1.8 million are occupied, they’re already built. And we go into those homes and we try and improve the energy performance of the home or retrofitting them. So that

[00:03:46] UJackie De Burca: Yebo, incazelo enhle leyo. Ngakho-ke, yebo, ngishilo, ngiqopha lokhu endlini kababa e-Dublin futhi uthola ukulungiswa kancane esimweni sakhe ngamafasitela amahle aseGeorgia azodinga ukuthuthukiswa futhi enze indlu isebenzise amandla kakhudlwana. Ngakho-ke, uyazi, kuyenzeka ngokusobala ezindaweni eziningi, ezindaweni eziningi izinhloso, uyazi, ingabe ziyaphumelela? Selokhu sagcina ukukhuluma lapha mayelana.

[00:04:09] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Ngonyaka odlule, samisa amabhajethi ekhabhoni. Ayikho ikhabhoni eningi evunyelwe emkhakheni ngamunye, kodwa esikhathini esiyiminyaka emihlanu. Ngakho-ke uma kukhona ofuna ukujula kulokhu, uzobona ukuthi izabelomali zekhabhoni ezehlukene, imikhakha emithathu unayo eyodwa yezokuthutha, eyodwa eyomkhakha wezokuhlaliswa kwezindlu, eyezolimo, enye ekagesi, nokunye. Futhi esikhathini esiyiminyaka emihlanu, leli inani lekhabhoni ovunyelwe ukulisebenzisa. Futhi ngokusobala iphuzu lonke lesabelomali ukuthi bafana nentela. Kukhona kancane okuqondiwe lapho ongafika kukho. Futhi ngendlela amabhajethi ekhabhoni, asethwa ngamabhulokhi weminyaka emihlanu. Ngakho-ke iminyaka emihlanu yokuqala isikhipha kuze kube sekupheleni kuka-2025. I-block yeminyaka emihlanu elandelayo isuka ku-25 kuya ku-2030.

Ngakho-ke lapho sibhekene nezinhloso ze-vis a zohlelo lwe-retrofit lukazwelonke, njengoba saqala ukudlala ibhola cishe ngo-2019 futhi ngokushesha okukhulu noma ngaphansi kakhulu ngemva kwalokho, saba ne-Covid ingxenye engcono kakhulu yeminyaka emibili, hhayi ngokuqinisekile izinto zihamba kancane. Ngakho-ke kwakungasekuqaleni kuka-2022 lapho sihamba khona ngokukhulu ukushesha mayelana nokufakwa kabusha esikalini futhi besilokhu senza umsebenzi omuhle kakhulu kusukela ngaleso sikhathi. Kodwa indlela okuhloswe ngayo, uJackie, ukuthi ibhulokhi yokuqala yeminyaka emihlanu ilula futhi imayelana nokwenza izinqubo zibe khona kanye nokuqwashisa nokwakha uchungechunge lokunikezela ngezinto ezifana nalezo ukuze ulungele ukuthatha uhambo lwesibili lwebhulokhi yeminyaka emihlanu. Ngakho-ke ilayishiwe ekugcineni, ngicabanga ukuthi, ngokweminyaka eyishumi. Ngakho-ke ngonyaka odlule, onyakeni ogcwele, ngonyaka odlule, 2024, sangena ndawana thize kodwa sinamahloni nje izicelo ezingama-70,000, okungaba ngu-4% ukwanda onyakeni odlule, okuhle, kodwa okungenzeka ukuthi akwanele kuma-euro ayizigidi ezingama-420, okuyi-30% yebo.

[00:06:41] UJackie De Burca: Kulungile, kulungile. Ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi kukho konke engikubonile ezingxoxweni zethu zangaphambilini nasekucwaningeni ngengxoxo yanamuhla lapha, kuzoba nenselelo enzima ezayo. Ngokuhamba kwethu, uyazi, uhlobo lokuzama ukuyakha kuze kufike kuhlobo lwejubane elilindelekile nelidingekayo, ngicabanga.

[00:07:00] Dr. Ciarán Byrne: Yeah, it is. I. Look, nobody said this is going to be easy and in a sense we’re doing, we’re doing really, when you stand back kind of at a high level look at this. We’re trying to really engage effectively 1.8 million homes in the country to do something. And it’s very interesting work, Jackie, because, you know, anything and you mentioned your father in a bit of retrofitting and that’s a lot of people who are doing that. They’re doing a single measure or they’re upgrading the attic or they’re changing pumping the cavity in walls or whatever it might be. Anything you do in this space is what we call no regrets work. So it’s all good. Anything you do to improve the energy efficiency of your home that such that it uses less energy and we move towards decarbonization is good. It’s going to be challenging, there’s no question about that. But that is the whole nature of the beast in terms of climate action targets right across the board and many of your listeners here will be fully a

[00:08:18] UJackie De Burca: Absolutely. And I can tell you firsthand that, you know, when I moved to Spain back in 2003, I really didn’t think that 22 years later, I would say that it’s a relief to come back over now. I don’t mean this. I love being back in Ireland. Let it not be said that I’m sort of saying anything about Ireland to the Irish, that I’d be actually relieved to get away because what you mentioned about somebody who was in Portugal, we have had seven relentless weeks in Spain and it’s been different the other years. So I have no doubt in my mind I wasn’t doubtful before this summer, but now I’m even more convinced of what’s happening and how quickly we need to be moving on everything.

[00:08:55] Dr. Ciarán Byrne: That’s a great point, Jackie. That is a really interesting one. I’m probably part of what we’re going to do today and part of my job and to a degree is make that connection for people. So just kind of walk through the steps. You’re living in Spain and how it’s changed. So somebody turns up in Portugal for my pal, turns up for a couple of weeks, holidays and goes, gosh, it’s very, very hot. It was 38 degrees. Well, I might go there again next year or I might choose a different time, whatever it is. But actually it’s trying to link that point and say, do you know what? Not that we’re causing it. At a humankind level, we are causing it, but in terms of what can you do about it? And sometimes people kind of throw their hands in the air and go, oh, jeez, it’s terrible, it’s really awful. But I’ll keep doing what I’m doing. But actually it’s those cumulative impact of all of those smaller changes that people make can have a difference. So that individual might. My pal should be saying,

[00:10:03] UJackie De Burca: Ngiyacabanga. Ngicabanga ukuthi kunjalo. Ibhoboza phansi, akunjalo? Kahle kahle njengoba usanda kusho, Ciarán, ngena njengezinga lomuntu siqu, akusenjalo, o, kunezinto ezimbi ezenzeka kude emhlabeni, uyazi, akusenjalo. Futhi ishintsha ngokushesha okukhulu. Ngakho uma abantu bekwazi nje ukuthi kunezinto ezinjengokuthi ubaba wami uneminyaka engama-86. Yingakho engenzi inzuzo enkulu. Uyazi, wayeyindoda encane, niyazi, ekubeka nje ngokusobala kakhulu. Akalindele ukubona inzuzo yalo futhi lokho, isimo sakhe. Kodwa okungenani kukhona akwenzayo. Ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi kufanele kuyena kanye nanoma ubani oqalayo, njengoba usushilo kakade, u-Ciarán, ohambweni lwabo lokubuyisela.

[00:10:39] Dr. Ciarán Byrne: Yeah, that’s a great point. You raise a number of good things. One thing we were certainly I was writing on last year and it’s the kind of found myself in a funny space, climate anxiety. So if you read enough terrible headlines, you start to kind of go, God, where are we heading? One of the things on climate anxiety is this idea of no ability to control it. So, you know, this is all this stuff happening. What can I do? You know, people sit there watching the David I-Atmer idokhumentari kanye nebhere elimhlophe libulawa indlala futhi unjani ukuhamba, ngenzeni? Hhayi-ke, empeleni uqala ukushintsha indlela oziphatha ngayo futhi ube yileyo kanye nenani lezindiza ozithathayo, noma ube kanjalo. Hlobo luni lwemoto oyishayelayo noma ukuthi wenza kanjani izithuthi zomphakathi noma ube yilowo obuyisela ekhaya lakho igalelo lakho ekulawuleni umthelela wami wesimo sezulu. Leyo ingxenye yawo. Enye ingxenye yokukhulisa uJack iyathakazelisa ngempela ngokuthi ubaba wakho usekhulile kancane futhi cishe ngeke awenze wonke umsebenzi ngoba kuyaqondakala ukuthi ungase ungayiboni inzuzo yakho, kodwa kuyinto okufanele sibhekane nayo ngaphambili ku-SAI kanye nokusebenzisana nozakwethu abahlukahlukene bomnyango. Uyabona ukuthi imizi kusamele ilungiswe kabusha. Ngakho-ke yeka indlela esibasekela ngayo abantu ohambweni lwabo. Uma ucabanga ngemizi eyizigidi ezingu-1.8 ehlala abantu ngaphandle kokubalwa kwabantu, ayifani. Ngakho inqwaba yabantu ezigabeni ezahlukene zohambo. Ingabe sinalo uhlelo noma indlela yabantu abahlukene ezigabeni ezahlukene? Yilokho thina'

[00:11:47] UJackie De Burca: That’s fascinating. Yeah, no, because I do think that’s absolutely it. It’s the whole stock, if you like, as you call it, like the housing stock, which will be different types of architecture, different periods, different, you know, as you said, you self care and people at all different stages of their lives. The big question would be how. I mean that is like massively challenging. How can it be embraced because of all of that and lots of people don’t necessarily have X amount of tens of thousands up front. I know there’s loads of grants like obviously that’s not, you know, that’s not, not sort of criticism. But people have to put the bill at the beginning really, don’t they?

[00:12:24] Dr. Ciarán Byrne: Yeah, well, I suppose in terms of. I’ll come back to the grants for a moment, but you’re right about the housing stock and it’s quite a variation and obviously anybody in Ireland lately, the biggest ticket in town is live housing and there’s a huge focus on new housing and that’ll all be built extraordinarily high standards, but everything there’s an awful lot of what’s currently in place now will still be around in 2050 when we want to be hit net zero. So we have to tackle it. And what we’re doing is building kind of what we tend to do is pilot out projects. See how would we tackle certain types and cohorts of houses. For example, we have a traditional home with pilot project going on at the moment. You mentioned there, Jackie, that your dad and house is George and windows and things like that. So that kind of I don’t know the house at all, but that kind of says to me that there might be issues around the kind of heritage issues around the house. And so the menu that you’d have

Akuwona wonke umuntu onesamba esikhulu semali ekhahlelayo futhi sikuqonda ngokuphelele lokho. Ngakho ufuna ukusekela abantu ohambweni lwabo. Ngakho-ke sisebenzisa leli phuzu ngohambo nendlela, noma yisiphi isilinganiso, lokhu akuyona indawo yokuzisola. Ngakho-ke uma unemali efanelekile noma eyisipele, lokhu, kulo nyaka noma yini, kulobu busika, wathi, niyazi ukuthi, ngenzenjani? Ukufaka i-attic insulated cishe kumayelana nokushibhe, into engcono kakhulu ongayenza ekuqaleni. Futhi lelo yibhokisi lophawu. Wenze kahle. Usengxenyeni yokuqala yohambo lwakho. Uma ungenza okunye okunye ngonyaka ozayo noma unyaka olandelayo, lokho kuhle kakhulu. Ngakho-ke sizama ukuphrofaya kabusha futhi siguqule izikimu zethu ezingasiza ngempela abantu kulolo hambo. Futhi lokho kuye kwasekelwa. Kunocezu olukhulu lomthetho olusha olungenayo oluvela e-Europe olubizwa ngokuthi i-Building Performance Directive. Futhi kumayelana nalokho, ukufaka abantu endleleni futhi abanye abantu bangehla emzileni kanye kanye namandla engeziwe kubo, futhi abanye abantu benza u-2, 3, 5,

[00:14:54] UJackie De Burca: Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that. Had a lovely conversation, a very interesting conversation with Stephen Barrett of the Irish Green Building Council, specifically about the Energy Performance Buildings Directive. He’s very involved in being back and forth with the EU and he’s explained actually how Ireland has been used as a bit of an example in a couple of the other countries.

[00:15:15] Dr. Ciarán Byrne: Yeah, well, Stephen and the team and the Irish Green Building Council are excellent. We have really strong relationship with them and we work very closely with them. And I quite happily they’ll tell us if we’re doing things right or wrong. And in their view, and we’ve been very much listening because they’re really on top of the, top of the game in terms of what they do and we work closely with them, developing a lot of projects and whatnot. But yeah, we did. The retrofitting program in Ireland is kind of, to a degree, the envy of Europe because of the scale and ambition of the program and how we’re trying to set out and do the homes. And when you’re talking about that kind of scale that we’re talking about and just go back to the point. Currently the target is 500,000 homes to a be your B2 standard, which is about 27% of the housing stock by 2030. So that’s really quite ambitious when you’re talking about that kind of scale, what you have to do is build out your pathways, delive

[00:16:32] UJackie De Burca: Yebo, nakanjani. Ngakho-ke lalela, kunentshiseko enkulu lapha ezwini lakho, elimnandi ukulizwa. Kodwa into eyodwa ocwaningweni lwami ngaphambi kwengxoxo yethu namuhla, uyazi, vele uNgqongqoshe uRyan uvumile ukuthi uhulumeni angase asilele ekufezeni inhloso yokubuyisela kabusha ka-2030.

Ngokombono wakho, Carol, yini empeleni.

[00:16:50] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Hhayi-ke, ngicabanga ukuthi sinezinhloso, sinokulethwa okucacile, futhi sinokukhipha okuqinile kokulethwa kwesigaba sethu. Futhi sigxile ngempela kulokho. Kodwa ngokwezinga elithile, empeleni asigxili kakhulu kulokho ngoba esifuna ukuqiniseka ukuthi amabhamuza amaningi, njengoba ngiwabiza kanjalo, ayasuswa ngangokunokwenzeka. Futhi-ke, uyazi, iphuzu lokuqala lokushaya ucingo uma ucabanga ngohambo. Abanikazi bezindlu kufanele benze isinqumo sokwenza okuthile, akunjalo? Cabanga ngabalaleli bakho ukuze nje uzicabangele okwamanje futhi sikubiza ngokuthi uhambo lwamakhasimende kusukela ekuqaleni kuze kube sekupheleni. Futhi qala ukufana, unqume ukwenza okuthile ekugcineni, nginesilinganiso endaweni futhi konke kukhokhiwe futhi kuhanjiswe futhi yini. Kulungile, othile kufanele anqume ukwenza okuthile, akunjalo? Ngakho-ke kufanele senze ucezu lomsebenzi mayelana nokubasekela futhi siqonde ukuthi yini ongayenza? Ukwenza kanjani? Ukuphi manje? Yiziphi izinhlobo zezinto ongazenza? Sinomkhankaso wokukhiqiza isidingo futhi

[00:19:17] UJackie De Burca: Futhi futhi, ngoba ngisohlotsheni lwesikhundla esikhethekile sokuba nengcosana, niyazi, okokuqala, amasekeni, ngenxa yokuhlangenwe nakho kukababa futhi ngokuqinisekile waba nokusabela okusheshayo ohlangothini lwezinto zesibonelelo futhi ngicabanga ukuthi wayejabule kakhulu ngalokho.

Futhi ngenkathi ekhona. Ngeke ngiwasho amagama manje, kodwa ngenkathi ethenga futhi ethola ama-quotes, kunenkampani eyodwa onayo ohlwini lwewebhusayithi kanti enye yayingafakwa ohlwini esizeni. Ngakho, vele ngamkhuthaza. Akayena umuntu ovula ikhompuyutha. Ngakho kwadingeka ngizibheke lezo zinto. Futhi ngabachazela isimo. Ngathi, bheka, uma kunconywa yi- ulwandle, lokho kuzoba yinkampani ozohamba nayo. Ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kufana nokucacile, niyazi, ngokuphathelene nanoma ubani oqala uhambo lwakhe. Ngicabanga ukuthi lolo hlangothi lwalo lusebenza kahle impela.

[00:20:01] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo. Ngakho-ke kwezinye zezinhlelo, enye yalezi esinazo, uhlelo lweKhaya Elingcono Lamandla, yilapho abantu benza khona izinyathelo zomuntu ngamunye. Lokho kudume ngendlela emangalisayo. Futhi njengokushintsha, uhlelo lokusebenza luvele ngokushesha. Ngakho-ke kufanele sazi nje, njenge mprn, okuyinombolo yereferensi yephoyinti lemitha, abantu abanayo ezikweletini zethu, futhi ngempumelelo esikubhekayo nje ukuthi, uyazi, wukuphila kwasekhaya futhi sike sasikhokha leso sibonelelo ngaphambili kulelo khaya? Futhi icishe ivele ngokushesha ngokuya ngenqubo yokugunyaza, egqamile. Futhi ngizwile abantu abaningi bethi esiqeshini sosonkontileka, asincomi, ngenxa yezizathu ezisobala, asincomi abathintwayo ngabanye. Kodwa esikwenzayo, sinerejista yosonkontileka futhi uma inkontileka iza ukuzobheka futhi ithi, ngifuna ukubhalisa ne-sei, sihlola nje ukuthi sinawo umshwalense wentela, okuyizidingo eziyisibopho, nokuthi banekhono lokuletha isilinganiso abazimisele ukusenza. Ngakho-ke uma bengabahlinzeki bokufaka, ingabe unawo amazinga okuzethemba, izimfanelo zokuletha ukufakwa ngendlela efanele? Sihlale siphakamisa ukuthi abantu basebenzise osonkontileka abasohlwini olugunyaziwe. Abantu abagunyaziwe ukwenza kanjalo. Kodwa ngeshwa, emsebenzini wami ngithola ukubona olunye uhlangothi locingo lapho luqhubeka khona

Conductors, in our scheme, they are subject to fairly regular inspection in terms of. There’s a lot of inspections taken out. Contacts are randomly taken out for inspection. There’s orders, there’s reworks, there’s standards. You have toolbox talks, you keep the standards up. So, you know, that’s why I always encourage people to go for contractors off the register for that reason, of course.

[00:21:26] UJackie De Burca: Ngibheke ukubuyekezwa kwezinkampani ezimbili futhi leyo eyenzeka kurejista yakho ibizwakala izwakala kakhulu uma ubheka mayelana nezibuyekezo. Ku-inthanethi. Ingabe leyo yinto ongase ucabange ukuyenza, empeleni ube nezibuyekezo njengengxenye yerejista, noma kunjalo?

[00:21:40] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Hhayi-ke, ngicabanga ukuthi kufanele sikuqaphe kancane ngalokho. Futhi ungakuqonda lokho ngokombono wezomthetho. Uyazi, kukhona enye ingxenye. Kodwa bheka ukuthi ukhombani ngempela lapho, Jack. Futhi into engingayincoma ngokuphelele futhi ngikhuthaze abadala, abadala, uyazi, i-caveat emptor, umthengi qaphela. Futhi ngiyikholwa eliqinile, noma ngabe iretrofit noma uthenga imoto entsha, noma uthenga umshini wokuwasha noma kungaba yini, thenga ndawo zonke, akunjalo? Futhi uyazi, kuzwakala kucishe kufane nolwazi olungenangqondo, kodwa thola izingcaphuno ezintathu zomsebenzi. Ngisesimweni esihle kakhulu sendlu lapha eDublin futhi ngenze imisebenzi endleleni. Ngangizama njalo ukuthola izingcaphuno ezintathu noma ezine futhi ngiye ngabona izinto ezingavamile kwezinye zohambo lwami. Kulungile. Futhi hhayi ohlangothini lwe-retro, kodwa ngakolunye uhlangothi. Futhi ukuthola njalo izingcaphuno ezimbili noma ezintathu uma ukwazi ukukhuluma nomuntu onaleyo nkampani. Futhi ngiyazi endaweni yami uqobo, uma kukhona

[00:22:46] Jackie De Burca: Now.

[00:22:46] Dr. Ciarán Byrne: We’re not trying to turn people into energy engineers or insulation experts, but even having a kind of a reasonably basic level of understanding of what’s required to do this and what does good look like is really important.

[00:22:58] UJackie De Burca: Impela, yebo. Ngoba insimu entsha, uyazi, yeningi lalaba bantu. Ngakho yebo, insimu entsha. Futhi ungazizwa uyisilima futhi ungazizwa sengathi kukhona ozokwenza, niyazi, kwenzeni, ngoba awazi ukuthi ukhuluma ngani. Ngakho konke lokho kuwusizo kakhulu. Manje, okunye okukhathazayo okusobala ngabasebenzi bangempela, uyazi, abantu abanekhono eliphezulu ukuze bakwazi ukwenza lolo hlobo lomsebenzi. Kuhamba kanjani lokho okwamanje, Ciarán?

[00:23:22] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, muningi umsebenzi laphaya, izingxoxo eziningi maqondana nohlobo lomkhakha omusha wokwakha. Futhi abasebenzi ngokuvamile. Ngakho-ke ezingeni lase-Ireland Inc., njengoba ngikholwa, sikulokho abakubiza ngokuqashwa okugcwele kwezomnotho. Lokho kusho ukuthi amazinga okuntuleka kwemisebenzi angaba ngu-4% noma ngaphansi kancane. Futhi lokho kusho ukuthi kuhlale kukhona abantu abathanda ukungena nokushiya abasebenzi. Ngakho-ke osomnotho basitshela ukuthi uma uku-4% ezingeni lokungasebenzi, uthola umsebenzi ogcwele ngokuthi wonke umuntu ofuna umsebenzi unomsebenzi. Ngakho kukhona ukuncintisana kubasebenzi. Kunomsebenzi omkhulu mayelana nomkhakha wokwakha omusha oqhudelana nomkhakha wokubuyisela. Ngingakutshela ukuthi sengikhulume nosonkontileka abaningi, umkhakha wokubuyisela kabusha. Ngike ngakhuluma nabo muva nje mayelana nendlela esizithuthukisa ngayo izinto futhi banamandla kakhulu ngokuthi akukho ukunqwabelana okungaka phakathi komkhakha wethu kanye nomkhakha omusha wokwakha. Abafana abaningi abenza umsebenzi wokubuyisela kabusha, uhlobo oluhlukile lwe-wo

[00:24:51] UJackie De Burca: Zonke lezi zinto zenzeka lapha.

[00:24:53] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, impela. Ngakho-ke, uyi-microcosm yohlobo lwakho olujwayelekile lomgwaqo ongaphansi kwedolobha e-Dublin noma e-Cork noma i-Go. Ngakho-ke iphuzu liwukuthi kukhona isethi ehlukile yamakhono namakhono angena endlini okuhlalwa kuyo, ekade ikhona futhi isetshenziswa. Ngakho. Ngakho-ke kukhona ukugqagqana, kodwa hhayi okuningi ngendlela abantu abangacabanga ngayo. Ngakho-ke ngikhulume nosonkontileka futhi ukulandisa okucacile kokuziphatha ohlangothini lwethu lokubuyisela kabusha i-retrofit kukhona umthamo lapho futhi bafuna nje ukuthi abantu bathathe ucingo baqhubeke nalo. Kodwa manje yisikhathi esihle sokucabanga ngokufaka kabusha izinto ngoba, uyazi, singakwazi ukubuyisela kabusha unyaka wonke kanye nakho konke okunye. Kodwa njengoba singena ekwindla, uyazi, uma uzwa sengathi kupholile ngonyaka odlule futhi ngidinga ukwenza okuthile, into yokuqala engizoyisho ukuqinisekisa ukuthi i-attic yakho ne-cavity yenziwe. Lokho, uyazi, lokho kuyisiqalo mayelana nohambo lwakho lokufakelwa. Futhi abaningi bosonkontileka laphaya bayakwenza lokho. Kuyashesha kakhulu.

[00:25:37] UJackie De Burca: Kulungile, ngakho-ke, sizozama ukukhipha lokhu, uyazi, ukunikeza iseluleko kubantu. Sizozama futhi mhlawumbe sihambise esinye isiqephu ngenxa yesikhathi futhi siyingxenye ebaluleke kakhulu yohambo luka-Arden. Uyazi, njengoba ushilo ekuqaleni embuzweni wakho, Ciarán, ucabanga ukuthi iyini indima ye-SEAI ekuvaleni igebe phakathi kwenqubomgomo yezinga eliphezulu kanye nokulethwa okuphansi kwalezi zinzuzo?

[00:26:01] Dr. Ciarán Byrne: Oh yeah, that’s a great question, Jackie. And what you’ve slightly described is kind of like the sandwich and we’re, we’re the ham in the middle. So if I lean my office chair and look to the left, we’re in delivery. So I mentioned at the height of the Discussion we supported 54,000 homeowners last year to do to an upgrade on their home and we want to do more next year and keep it going. So we’ve got a really strong delivery role. Since we take it, we deliver. And that earlier discussion on making sure the pain points removed, the speed bumps removed and it’s as seamless as possible for homeowners to do the right thing, pivot the chair the other way. We lean back into our ministry and we have a really great team in there who are looking at the high level policy pieces in terms of what’s they have to take government policy and where do you want to kind of spread the word and where they want the kind of schemes to work on. Get the funding from central government for the schemes and

[00:27:24] UJackie De Burca: Yebo, lokho kuyathakazelisa. Manje i-News Talk, ngiyaqiniseka ukuthi uyawazi umbiko wabo wakamuva. Bakugqamisile ukuthi banomuzwa wokuthi ukutholwa kwezibonelelo zokubuyisela kabusha kusephansi. Kungani, Ciarán, unomuzwa wokuthi ambalwa kangaka amakhaya afaka izicelo uma kuziwa kuwo wonke umsebenzi onzima eniwenzayo?

[00:27:41] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, ngeke ngivume ukuthi kuphansi ngoba cishe kusetshenziswe imindeni engu-70,000 ngonyaka odlule, okuyinombolo enkulu impela. Okuyikho, idinga ukuba phezulu. Ngakho sidinga izinto ezengeziwe ukuze sizenze. Futhi empeleni okumayelana nokuthi ungabheka ulwazi lwezomnotho olusezingeni eliphezulu nezinto ezinjalo, kodwa uyazi, ekugcineni kosuku abantu kufanele benze isinqumo ngabodwana nokuthi ukuphi ohambweni lwabo lwempilo. Futhi akukho ukungabaza ngakho, izinto zizwakala ziqinile kancane laphaya. Kunolwazi oluningi oluzayo mayelana nokuthi abantu bazizwa bencishana. Kunezindleko zokuphila kancane, izindleko zegrosa nezinto ezinjalo. Izinto eziza kuqala ezimpilweni zabantu, kuya ngokuthi zikuphi empilweni, uyazi, ngakho konke kuyizici ezifake esinqumweni. Futhi bheka, sizokwenza njalo, sikhuluma nabantu abaziphatha kahle, sivotela imakethe, sisampula. Abantu bathi, uyazi, yini ekuvimbayo ukuthi wenze into eqalayo,

[00:30:12] Jackie De Burca: Okay. I mean I have no doubt about the benefits, you know, health wise and you know, investment wise and all of that sort of stuff. But I would be sort of in a similar position to yourself, Carol. Know we’re going to go back to vintages and genres and whatnot for a second.

[00:30:28] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, yebo.

[00:30:29] UJackie De Burca: Uyazi, bengizokwazi ukucabanga ngohlobo oluthile, uyazi, bengingathanda ukwenza lokho ukube bengihlala e-Ireland? Impela bengizozibona izinzuzo. Kodwa lingakanani iphesenti lomphakathi, owaziyo, osanda kusho ngalo esikhathini esifushane esedlule ukuthi kwenzekani emazweni amaningi. Uyazi, izindleko zokuthenga zansuku zonke zikhuphuke kakhulu. Ngakho-ke sizothi unguMndeni osemncane ohambweni lwakho onabantwana abancane futhi manje ususibekela inselelo yokuthi sondle wonke umuntu futhi sithole amanabukeni nakho konke lokho. Ngicabanga ukuthi ukube bengisesimweni sabo, kungenzeka ukuthi ngiyacabanga, lokhu kuyinto yabantu abacebile, ngakho-ke besingayenza kanjani ukuthi ibandakanye kakhudlwana, uyacabanga?

[00:31:04] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, iphuzu elihle lelo, Jackie. Futhi bheka, futhi futhi, ngiyabona ukuthi ngangiyilelo sosha esikhathini esingeside kangako ngokwemibandela, niyazi, izindleko zokuphila, kodwa empeleni lokho kuyahamba. Ubuyela engxoxweni yangaphambili. Singena kunqubomgomo yethu. Sihlale sibheka amacebo lapho senzeka khona, ubani ukuthatha phezulu nabo nezinto ezinjalo. Yini esingayenza ehlukile? Futhi uyazi, ukhuluma ngokukwazi ukukhokhela, abantu. Kukhona lolu hlobo lobukhulu bokulandisa lapho, kodwa o, buyinzuzo yabantu abacebile kuphela. Kodwa empeleni cha, akunjalo nhlobo ngoba ngisho nezinto ezifana nokufakwa kwe-attic, futhi ngishilo lokho kusekuqaleni okuhle kakhulu. Phuma ophahleni lwendlu, uyazi, €2,000 noma ngaphansi kanye nezibonelelo ezifika ku-€1800, ngaphezulu kancane kuka-€2,000, kodwa kunezibonelelo ezifika ku-€1800 zokuvala uphahla. Kodwa ukhuluma ngakho, uyazi, 50, 60% wezindleko zokufakwa kwe-attic embozwe yisibonelelo.

Ngakho izindleko eziphelele zomnikazi wendlu ziphansi uma kuqhathaniswa. Lelo izinga lokungena lokuqala uma ufuna ukungena kulo. Mayelana nokubuyisela kabusha, ngithola ngokuphelele futhi ngiqonde ngokuphelele futhi sibheka lokhu njalo. Uma othile engenalutho ngokoqobo olusele ethini ekupheleni kwesonto, noma yini, kunzima ukukucabangela lokho. Kodwa ngokomqondo wokuthi ngeyabantu abacebile kuphela, akunjalo neze. Enye yezinto ezinhle kakhulu ongayenzela indlu yakho ukwenza isiqiniseko sokuthi unezinga elilungile lokufakwa kwe-attic nokuthi kunezibonelelo ezibalulekile zalokho ngokuthi kunezinkontileka eziningi laphaya futhi zibiza kakhulu emakethe futhi uyazi, sikuncomile lokho futhi bheka, sekubuyele kulelo phuzu labantu ohambweni lwabo. Futhi futhi, ngiyakhumbula ngenkathi siqala ngenqubo yesitolo esisodwa sokuqala abantu banginika uhlobo lwempendulo engemihle mayelana, uyazi, okweqembu elithile kuphela futhi bonke abanye futhi angikwazi ukukukhokhela. Futhi babekhungathekile kakhulu ukuthi angikwazanga ukwenza lokho

[00:32:50] UJackie De Burca: Kulungile, ngakho-ke ngicabanga ukuthi sixoxile, uyazi, enye yemibono eyiphutha ebalulekile, okungukuthi, uyazi, ingeyabantu abacebile kuphela. Ngakho ngicabanga, uyazi, ukuchaze kahle lokho. Yimiphi eminye imibono eyiphutha, u-Ciarán, oyaziyo, evelayo okwamanje mayelana nokufakwa kabusha, okungase kulimaze ekuthathweni, uyacabanga?

[00:33:08] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, okukodwa okukhulu okufikayo ukuthi kufanele uphume endlini yakho uma wenza i-retrofit ejulile. Futhi uyazi, elinye lamaphuzu ezinhlungu, ngizwe othile ekhuluma kamuva nje ukuthi izophuma futhi angitholanga ndawo engingayiqasha ngakho-ke lokho bekuyisivimbeli, ebengingakuqonda lokho, kodwa bekuvele nje, ngathi, ngikhethe ukukukhetha kancane ngoba cishe zonke izinyathelo ezibandakanyeka ekubuyiseni okujulile, akumele uphume endlini yakho. Kodwa esikubonayo abantu abaningi abenza ukubuyisela okujulile ezindlini zabo nabo benza neminye imisebenzi. Futhi ngakho-ke bahlanganisa izingcezu ezimbili ndawonye. Kuvele ukuthi sebelungiswa kabusha ikhishi kanye nomsebenzi wokwakha ezansi endlini yokugezela esezingeni eliphansi kwenziwa zonke lezi zinto. Ngakho-ke lokho akuhlangene ne-retrofit oyenzayo ngesikhathi esifanayo. Ngakho kunegama elingelona iqiniso lapho. Ngakho ungenza imisebenzi eminingi

[00:34:25] UJackie De Burca: Ngakho into eyodwa esike sayithinta ngaphambili, uCiarán, kafushane, kwakuwukuhlukahluka kwezindlu zase-Ireland ezigugile. Futhi ngokusobala lokho kuletha izinselelo eziyingqayizivele uma kuziwa ekuzilungiseni kabusha, akunjalo? Yiziphi lezo okwamanje futhi ubhekana kanjani nazo?

[00:34:41] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, uqinisile, Jackie. Ngicabanga ukuthi asihlukile kunamazwe amaningi aseYurophu, uma ufuna. Kodwa emhlabeni wethu, owaphela cishe ngo-1941, safaka kubakaki bekhaya lendabuko. Ngakho-ke unendlu eyakhiwe, uyazi, uhlobo lukakhonkolo oluningi lwezindlu zamathala ezakhiwe iziphathimandla zendawo, i-marino ngeminyaka yawo-1920 kanye nama-30s. Futhi unendlu yesiGeorgia eyakhiwa ngeminyaka yawo-1760s nakho konke okuphakathi.

And just in terms of the buildings themselves, they’re built differently. So the building physics is different. How moisture and how air flow to those houses are different, all those kind of things. So a good example is that a lot of the products, pretty much all the products we use at the moment and the retro buildings have an agriment search, which means they’re certified to be the right product to be used in this particular way in these conditions in Ireland, and that means they’re right. Many of those products would be impermeable. Right. So if you’ve got a really old stone cottage and you put impermeable insulation on the cottage, what actually happens, it can trap moisture because the physics of those cottages is that moisture travels in and out. And if you put an impermeable barrier, can have moisture damage and trap moisture. And the guys tell me, the architects and conservation people tell me that over a period of time, that impacts on the structure and that impacts mold and things like that. So wha

[00:36:26] Jackie De Burca: What about the retrofitting contribution? You know, it’s not only decarbonization, but, you know, climate resilience, Ciarán. Like coping with, you know, overheating and floods, as we talked about earlier.

[00:36:38] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, yilokho kanye. Ngicabanga ukuthi asiqondile thina. Sibe, uma kuqhathaniswa, sibe nenhlanhla e-Ireland mayelana nezinto ezifana nokudla ngokweqile nokupholisa, ngoba isimo sethu sezulu sinjalo.

Is relatively, and I say this relatively because of course there’s always exceptions, but it’s relatively benign. And I’ve often noticed if you stood and looked at a map of Ireland and you went east from Dublin, you’re not badly off the latitude of Moscow. And if you went west from Dublin, you’re not badly off the latitude of Newfoundland. And if you look at the climatic conditions of both of those areas, they have extraordinary hot summers, extraordinary cold winters. We don’t tend to have that in Ireland, but what we’re trying to do is we tend to have mud, generally milder and damper weather in Ireland, you know, thus far. And really, by retrofitting the home, you’re improving the comfort of, the thermal comfort of it, but you’re also making it cheaper to run and you’re helping to kind of protect yourself against those changes that we’re seeing coming more and more frequently.

[00:37:33] UJackie De Burca: Ingabe akhona amasu angempela, afana, athokozisayo, uyazi, ukuthandwa, ukusho, amasistimu we-prefab deep retrofit noma mhlawumbe ukuxilongwa kwamandla okusekelwe ku-AI okungasiza ukusheshisa inqubekelaphambili esiyenzayo lapha e-Ireland.

[00:37:47] Dr. Ciarán Byrne: Yeah, well, that’s it. We’re looking at that. And one of the areas, and it’s not specifically my area, and you’ll hear them talk, people talk about this kind of modern methods of construction that’s to a degree focused on the new build. So actually I was on a conference there last year, Jackie, and we had a very eminent professor from the UK and England and she put up her first slide in the conference. Really interesting and many. We talked about our vintage. So anybody of our vintage will remember this. The lady. The Ladybird books. It was kind of, you know, the little Ladybird books, you all learn skill, the little readers. And one from 1A to 12C or whatever it was, but they had a front cover Ladybird book from, I think it was 1955. Anyway, the point this professor was making was it was about the Ladybird guide to making houses, teaching kids how you make a house. And a little picture in front of a half built house, scaffolding and a little cement mixer and a man. There was no

Ngakho-ke esikwenzayo, kukhona iphrojekthi yokuhlola, iqembu elibizwa nge-Energy Sprung. Ivela e-Europe futhi bazinze e-UK futhi ngokuqinisekile sibe nezingxoxo nabo. Futhi uzophumela lapho futhi bazothatha izilinganiso ezingaphezulu kwenkulungwane endlini, cishe njengezinto eziphelele zohlobo lwamawele edijithali yendlu futhi bazokwakha kabusha indawo yokuhlala. Ngakho-ke ngibone amaphrojekthi ambalwa aseYurophu lapho avivinye khona lolu hlobo lobuchwepheshe futhi lubukeka luhle ngempela, kodwa empeleni lusesiteji sokuhlola okwamanje kunesigaba sokuthunyelwa kwabantu abaningi. Kepha ungacabanga ngokuthuthuka kwezinto ezifana nokuzwa ukude kwe-AI, kufanele ukwazi ukuphuma uyokwenza ukubuyisela esikalini ngaphandle kwesayithi futhi ukubeke ezindlini. Futhi empeleni umshayeli wendiza, benza umshayeli wendiza e-Ireland njengengxenye yephrojekthi, umsebenzi omuhle ngempela owenziwe futhi bakhetha izindlu ezimbalwa. Ngicabanga ukuthi bekungeyona imali ebolekiwe. Futhi nakuba izindlu zazifana ngokwegama, lapho wehlela ezilinganisweni eziqondile zomuntu ngamunye

[00:40:23] UJackie De Burca: Ngisanda kungena engxoxweni njengesixhumanisi ngoba futhi kukhona umuntu. Esinye isivakashi esasithakazelisa ngempela kwakunguWill Frost waseSan Francisco. Futhi kwakuyiso kanye isihloko. Manje ubiza, ukhetha ukubiza izindlela zesimanje zokwakha ukwakhiwa okulungiselelwe.

[00:40:39] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Yebo, kuhle lokho.

[00:40:40] UJackie De Burca: Uhlu oluthokozisayo. Ngisanda kuyifaka lapho. Ngenxa yokuthi usohambweni, ulapha nomsebenzi nezinselelo onazo lapho. Uma ngabe nguwe olawula ngokugcwele uhlelo lokubuyisela kabusha kusasa kube yinto yokuqala oyishintshayo.

[00:40:56] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Lowo umbuzo onzima ngempela.

Uma kukhona owaziyo, ngiwuhlobo lomenzi futhi sigxila kakhulu ohlangothini lokulethwa kwezinto. Ngakho-ke mhlawumbe ngigxila kakhulu ekuzameni ukwenza lula.

Ngakho ngizosebenzisa amagama enza lula, afane futhi ahlanganise. Ngakho-ke indlela yokuhamba ngicabanga ukuthi besicabanga ukuthi sibheke ngakhona noma kunjalo isusa ubunkimbinkimbi ezinhlelweni ezahlukahlukene. Okufanele ukwenze, lokho ongadingi ukukwenza ngokuyisisekelo futhi thina, sixoxa kakhulu njengoJackie ukuthi sidinga abanikazi bezindlu.

Abanikazi bezindlu ngokuvamile, uma ucabanga ngawe noma mina noma umshana wakho noma umshana wakho, umzala wakho, umakhelwane wakho, bamatasa kakhulu ezimpilweni zabo, akunjalo? Abantu bamatasa benza imisebenzi yabo futhi benza noma yini. Asifuni ukuthi babe ngonjiniyela bamandla, bahle uma bezoba ngabahle, kepha asidingi ukuthi babe yilokho, niyazi, bazokwenza lomsebenzi. Abantu abaningi kanye nami ngizwe emsakazweni muva nje ukuthi, niyazi, ukuthenga indlu noma okuthize, othile wenza mhlawumbe kanye, mhlawumbe kabili ezimpilweni zakhe, akunjalo? Uma ubuyisela kabusha indlu, yenza ukuthi udonga lwangaphandle lwenziwe, indlu yakho, ngeke ukwazi ukuphinda wenze lokho mhlawumbe kuze kube phakade noma iminyaka engama-25 noma engu-30. Ngakho-ke sidinga ngempela ukusebenza kanzima ekwenzeni lula, ukukumisa, ukukuhlanganisa. Ngakho-ke kulula kakhulu ukudlula indlela futhi wenze umsebenzi wenziwe.

[00:42:07] UJackie De Burca: Ingakufunani indaba yempumelelo yokubuyisela ngo-2026? Eqinisweni, sizothi ukuphela kuka-2026.

[00:42:17] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Oh, 2020. Iphuzu lokuqala kuzoba ukuwasebenzisa ngemali eyabelwe futhi sifinyelele imigomo yethu. Lokho kuwuhlobo lweNkanyezi yethu yaseNyakatho ngaso sonke isikhathi. Kodwa obekungasho ukuthi empeleni sizoba nesidingo eseqile futhi abantu baqale ukubuyela kuso futhi baqale ohambweni lwabo. Ngakho-ke, bheka, unyaka ngamunye sibe nezinjongo ezinwetshiwe eziningi kunonyaka owandulele. Futhi futhi siyaxoxa ekuqaleni kocingo lokuthi uhlobo lokuqala lwekhabhoni lufika esiphethweni futhi kusukela ngomhla ka-26 kuya phambili usungene, njengoba bekubiza kanjalo, ezingxenyeni ezithile zezwe, ukujikijelwa okukhulu. Futhi sidinga ukwenza izinombolo zethu ngo-2026. Yilokho okubukeka ngempumelelo.

[00:42:48] UJackie De Burca: Impela, impela. Manje ekugcineni, Ciarán, imuphi umyalezo ongathanda ukuwunikeza umnikazi womuzi ovamile nongumnikazi wawo? Iqiniso lokuthi siyazi ukuthi bonke basezicini ezihlukene zohambo lwabo nasezimpahleni ezihlukene, kodwa banentshisekelo yokubuyisela kabusha kodwa bakhungethwe yinqubo. Ungathini kubo?

[00:43:05] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Ngithi ngena kuwebhusayithi yethu, the sei ie. Kulula ngempela ukuzulazula, kuchaza izinto eziningi. Futhi kukhona umhlahlandlela womninikhaya futhi sinenqubo yokungena ohambweni. Sithi ukuhlola, kulungile. Uma une-beor, kungenzeka ukuthi unombiko womeluleki onawo nokuthi lokho ngokuyisisekelo kubheka isilinganiso sempahla yekhaya lakho. Ngakho ngamanye amazwi, kunoma yiluphi uhambo, uqala kuphi? Ngakho-ke vele uthi, isibonelo, ikhaya lakho linesilinganiso se-D1. Kuhle. Umbiko womeluleki uzokunikeza izinga eliphezulu. Yini okufanele ngabe uyenza kulolo hlobo lwendlu?

Ngena kuwebhusayithi yethu futhi uthole, uyazi, imininingwane eyengeziwe ngalokho. Sinezixhumanisi zosonkontileka, imali ikhona. Ngiyakuthinta, kodwa angikwazi ukugcizelela ngokwanele ukuthi kukhona amanani amahle ngempela atholakalayo kuhlu lwabahlinzeki emabhange. Ezinye izimali ezibolekiwe ezinezindleko eziphansi ziyakusekela ohambweni lwakho. Ukhuluma ngo-3, 3.5% kwabaningi babo. I-3.5% yemalimboleko ebiza kancane yezezimali. Ngena kuwebhusayithi yethu, izokutshela ukuthi wenzeni. Unezixhumanisi zosonkontileka bese uqala uhambo lwakho.

[00:43:58] UJackie De Burca: Iseluleko esihle. Ngakho-ke lalela, Ciarán, ngicabanga ukuthi sizophinde sibambe iqhaza ngoba isimo esisheshayo futhi kuzokujabulisa ukuqhubeka nokukhuluma futhi ubone ukuthi uhambo luhamba kanjani ngokwenu. Ingabe kukhona okunye ongathanda ukukwengeza, Ciarán?

[00:44:12] UDkt. Ciarán Byrne: Cha, uJackie nje ngithi ngiyabonga kakhulu ngethuba lokuxoxa nawe lapha futhi kuyingxoxo engakahleleki futhi thina, sihlanganise izinto eziningi kodwa qhubeka, qhubeka, ngilokhu ngikhipha umlayezo obalulekile.

Kwakuyini, isikhathi esingcono kakhulu sokwenza okuthile kwakuyiminyaka engaba ngu-25 edlule. Isikhathi esilandelayo esingcono kakhulu sokukwenza namuhla, uyazi, ngakho ngena ohambweni. Ngakho lalela, ngiyabonga kakhulu. Ngiyakwazisa lokho.

[00:44:30] UJackie De Burca: Ngiyabonga.

Amazwi akhayo lawa.