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Ama-podcasts Ireland Amaphodikhasti ase-Ireland

,S4, E11: Greening Ireland: From Pocket Forests to Native Woodlands With Catherine Cleary

Ishicilelwe ekuqaleni · Kugcine ukubuyekezwa

I-Greening Ireland: Ukusuka Emahlathini E-Pocket kuya e-Native Woodlands NoCatherine Cleary

‘Greening Ireland: From Pocket Forests to Native Woodlands With Catherine Cleary’ is a feature created by Sarah Austin.

We recently had the pleasure of speaking with Catherine Cleary, author, journalist, and the CEO & Co-founder of Pocket Forests. Having authored and co-authored 4 books and been a Restaurant Critic for the Irish Times for more than 10 years, Catherine has now turned her attention to nature, climate action and greening Ireland.

Ngo-2020, uCatherine waqala amaphrojekthi amabili: eyodwa, ukusungula ibhizinisi lokutshala amahlathi amancane ezindaweni zomphakathi, kanti elinye, ukutshala ihlathi lakubo endaweni engamahektha angama-40.

Amahlathi Esikhwama ibhizinisi lezenhlalo eliletha imvelo emadolobheni nasemadolobheni azungeze i-Ireland ngokwakha amaphakethe ezihlahla zomdabu nezihlahlana emiphakathini.

In this episode of the Constructive Voices podcast, we explore the work of Pocket Forests in the urban greening of Ireland and their role in reconnecting our communities with nature.

Siphinde sixoxe ngohambo lomuntu siqu luka-Catherine ekudaleni indawo yakhe yehlathi, idokhumentari ethi The Forest Midwife, kanye nezimo zengqondo zabanikazi bomhlaba maqondana nokutshala amahlathi.

UCatherine Cleary Greening Ireland Isiqephu Esigcwele SePodcast

Isithombe sephrofayili sikaCatherine Cleary
Isithombe sihlonishwa ngu-Catherine Cleary

“Ihlathi liyimpande yakho konke ukuphila; yisibeletho esivuselela imizwelo yethu yemvelo, esijulisa ubuhlakani bethu futhi sikhulise ukuzwela kwethu njengabantu”

U-Akira Miyawaki [1]

Woodland

Amahlathi e-Ireland

Nakuba u-80% wezwe wake wambozwa amahlathi, Ireland’s forest area is now estimated to be 808,848 ha, or 11.6% of the total land area [2]. Of this 11%, nine per cent of the land is planted with fast-growing tree species like spruces for rapid timber production, while only 2% is planted with native broadleaf trees [3]. Sitka spruce is the most common tree species in Ireland, making up 44.6% of the total forest area [4].

Izwe linomgomo waminyaka yonke wokugawulwa kwamahlathi okungamahektha ayizi-8,000, ngenhloso yokufinyelela ku-18% ukumboza kwamahlathi ngo-2050; nokho-ke, ukutshala kuhlale kusilela kulo mgomo [5].

At 11.6%, Ireland has one of the lowest forest covers of any country in the European Union, which has an average tree coverage of 39% [6, 2].

The countries with the highest percentage forest cover in the EU are Finland (66%), Sweden (63%), Slovenia (58%), Estonia (54%) and Latvia (53%) [6].

I-Ireland landscape

I-Ireland's Forestry Strategy 2022-2030

Ireland’s Forestry Strategy provides a framework to expand the national forest estate between 2022 and 2030 to create lasting benefits for the environment, society and economy, and lays the foundation for the Forestry Programme 2023-2027 [7].

Isu lakhiwe ngokuhambisana nomgomo wokuqondisa we "izihlahla ezifanele ezindaweni ezifanele ngezizathu ezifanele ngokuphathwa okufanele", ngomgomo wokukhiqiza amahlathi anemisebenzi eminingi, ahlukahlukene, acabangela Abantu, Iplanethi Nempumelelo [7].

Uhlelo Lwezamahlathi luhlose ukukhiqiza amahlathi ahlukahlukene, anemisebenzi eminingi “strengthen the economic viability of rural communities, protect our environment and that are resilient in the face of climate change.” [7].

I-Urban Greening Ireland

Njengoba u-64% wabantu base-Ireland abahlala ezindaweni zasemadolobheni futhi leli phesenti likhula kancane kancane [8], kubalulekile ukuthi imizamo yokwenza i-Ireland “eluhlaza” ingagcini ezindaweni zasemakhaya. Izindawo zasemadolobheni ziba nomthelela omkhulu wokushintsha kwesimo sezulu, okunomthelela kwingqalasizinda kanye nempilo [9].

For example, urban areas experience the Urban Heat Island effect, resulting from factors such as the vast amount of concrete and other heat-absorbing materials and the limited amount of vegetation [10]. However, urban areas are also key contributors to global warming, being responsible for 70% of global CO2 emissions [9].

Excerpt from interview with Nadina Galle

I-Urban Greening is a process of introducing vegetation and green spaces into urban areas to create sustainable cities with enhanced quality of life [11]. Green Infrastructure can help us to achieve this.

Ingqalasizinda eluhlaza is defined by the European Commission as “A strategically planned network of natural and semi-natural areas with other environmental features, designed and managed to deliver a wide range of ecosystem services, while also enhancing biodiversity” [12]. Types of green infrastructure include community woodlands, green roofs, landscaping, street trees, urban parks and gardens, and wetlands [13].

Green infrastructure in our towns and cities can enhance ecosystem services, such as air quality and climate regulation, the mitigation of extreme events, and the regulation of water flows, thus mitigating or reducing issues such as the Urban Heat Island effect and flooding [14]. When designed and maintained correctly, green infrastructure such as community woodlands and gardens can provide a space for both recreation and wildlife [13], promoting biodiversity, enhancing the condition and connectivity of natural areas, improving mental and physical health, and enhancing social cohesion [14, 12].

I-Pocket Forests ye-Greener Ireland

UCatherine Cleary no-Ashe Conrad-Jones, Abasunguli bePocket Forests
UCatherine Cleary no-Ashe Conrad-Jones, Abasunguli bePocket Forests. Isithombe sihlonishwa yi-Pocket Forests

Amahlathi Esikhwama iyinhlangano yezenhlalo eletha imvelo emadolobheni nasemadolobheni azungeze i-Ireland ngokwakha amaphakethe ezihlahla zomdabu nezihlahlana phakathi kwemiphakathi [15]. Lolu hlelo lusekela izilwane zasendle zomdabu futhi lusondeza abantu eduze nemvelo.

The organisation was established in Dublin in 2020 by Ashe Conrad-Jones and Catherine Cleary. They work with communities such as schools, residents’ groups, sports clubs, universities, businesses, healthcare providers, housing bodies and also private garden owners [16].

Kusukela ngo-2020, ithimba le-Pocket Forests liye lasekela imiphakathi ukuthi itshale amahlathi ephaketheni angaphezu kwekhulu, asukela ngosayizi ukusuka etafuleni le-ping-pong kuya kuhhafu wenkundla yethenisi, ehlanganisa ngokuqondile abantu abangaphezu kwe-1,500 bayo yonke iminyaka futhi itshale cishe izihlahla ezingu-5,000 [17].

Liyini Ihlathi Lesikhwama?

A pocket forest is a reforestation method suited to urban areas developed by the Japanese botanist Akira Miyawaki lokho kuhilela ukudalwa kwezinhlobonhlobo zezinto eziphilayo, amahlathi aminyene ezindaweni ezincane [18].

Pocket Forest esikoleni
Ngokuhlonishwa kwe-Pocket Forests

Izisekelo Zendlela Yokutshala i-Miyawaki [18]:

  • Native Plant Species – Native species are adapted to the local climate and can support other native species, promoting healthy, stable ecosystems.
  • Ukuminyana Kokutshala - Izitshalo zitshalwa eduze kakhulu njengoba zingatholakala endaweni yemvelo yamahlathi emvelo, ikhuthaza izitshalo ukuthi zisekelane, ngaleyo ndlela kuholele ekukhuleni ngokushesha.
  • Soil Preparation – The soil is enriched with organic materials such as compost to enhance plant growth. The Pocket Forests organisation employs permaculture methods, which minimise soil disturbance [1].
  • Awekho Amakhemikhali - Izindlela zemvelo zokuvikela izitshalo, njengokufakwa komquba nokutshala okuhambisanayo, zikhethwa kunezibulala-zinambuzane ezingaphili kanye nomanyolo, ezikhuthaza i-ecosystem enempilo futhi elinganiselayo.
  • Ukunakekela Okuncane - Ihlathi lidinga ukunakekelwa okuncane kulandela isikhathi sokuqala sokukhula seminyaka engu-2-3, ngemva kwalokho izinqubo zemvelo ze-ecosystem zingathatha izintambo, okuvumela ihlathi ukuthi lisebenze ngokuzimele. [18]

Inhlangano ye-Pocket Forests isebenzisa amanye alawa masu, ngokugxila ekutshaleni izihlahla, izihlahlana nezitshalo ezimboze umhlabathi ezidabuka e-Ireland, izinto ezigaywa kabusha, kanye nokuphazamiseka okuncane kwemvelo [1].

Ukwakhiwa komphakathi

Ukufaka umphakathi kuzo zonke izigaba zezinqubo zokuhlela nokuphatha kuthathwa njengokubalulekile ekudaleni izindawo eziyimpumelelo zehlathi lomphakathi [13]. Lokhu kuyinzuzo engokwemvelo emsebenzini we-Pocket Forests, obandakanya umphakathi ochungechungeni lwemihlangano yokucobelelana ngolwazi, kusukela ekulungiseni inhlabathi kuya ekutshalweni, ukuya ekunakekeleni nasekunakekeleni ihlathi lawo elisanda kusungulwa [16].

Inikeza ithuba lokuzibandakanya ezenzweni ezinhle zemvelo, ukufunda indlela yokuthuthukisa imvelo ezingadini zabo ekhaya, kanye nokuthatha ubuphathi bezindawo zomphakathi okwabelwana ngazo [15].

Umsebenzi wenhlangano ye-Pocket Forests usekelwe kulawa magugu alandelayo [15]:

  • Ukukhula Komphakathi - ukuvuselela imiphakathi komunye nomunye kanye nomhlaba wemvelo.
  • Environmental Integrity – minimising environmental impact through the use of organic plants, low-emissions travel, and minimal single-use plastic.
  • Ukutshala Izithombo Zomdabu zase-Ireland - Ukusekela izitshalo nezilwane zomdabu.
  • Ukuvuselela Inhlabathi Ngokusebenzisa Kabusha Izinto Ezilahlwayo - Ukusebenzisa kabusha izinto eziphilayo ezifana namakhadibhodi, ukugaya ikhofi kanye nemfucumfucu yokudla eboshiwe.

Ukukhulisa Ihlathi Lomdabu

Ngo-2020, uCatherine nomyeni wakhe bathenga ipulazi elingamahektare angama-40 e-County Roscommon, ngenhloso yokukhulisa ihlathi lendabuko. Amahektha angamashumi amabili nesikhombisa omhlaba atshalwe nezihlahla zomdabu, kanti amahektha ayi-13 asele asele endle ukuze anikeze olunye uhlobo lwendawo yokuhlala yemvelo [19].

Ngemva kokutshala izihlahla ezingu-6,000 18,000 ngesandla, ngosizo lomkhaya nabangane, abatshali abangochwepheshe batshala ezinye izihlahla ezingu-24,000 19. Izihlahla ezingu-XNUMX ezitshaliwe zihlanganisa izinhlobo ezihlukahlukene zomdabu zase-Ireland: i-birch, i-Scots pine, i-hazel, i-willow, i-alder, i-apula ye-crab, nama-oki ama-sessile nama-pedunculate, ngamasu okwengeza ezinye izinhlobo: i-cherry yasendle, i-rowan, i-poplar emnyama, i-aspen, i-whitebeam, i-spindle, i-guelder rose ne-holly [XNUMX].

Umhlahlandlela kaCatherine Cleary wokwakha ihlathi [19]:

  1. “Thola isazi sehlathi esibhalisiwe endaweni yangakini.
  2. Bacele ukuthi bavakashele izwe ukuze balihlole ukuthi lingaba yini njengehlathi. Akukhona yonke indawo elungele ihlathi. Ezindaweni ezihlala ngokukhethekile, lokho osekukhona kakade kungase kwenze umsebenzi ongcono wesimo sezulu nezinhlobonhlobo zezinto eziphilayo kunanoma yiliphi ihlathi.
  3. Uma umhlaba ufanelekile, isazi sehlathi sizokufakela isicelo selayisensi. Uzosayina amaphepha amaningi.
  4. Uma ilayisensi ikhishiwe, ungasebenza nochwepheshe behlathi ukutshala ingxenye noma wonke ngokwakho, noma bazokutholela yona futhi bakutshale yona. Izindleko zokusungula uthango, izihlahla kanye nokutshala zikhokhwa ngoxhaso oluvela kuMnyango Wezolimo, Ukudla kanye Nezasolwandle. Ungakwazi ukutshala inani lezinhlobo zehlathi. Uma intshisekelo yakho iyisimo sezulu kanye nokuhlukahluka kwemvelo, enye yezinketho ezinhle kakhulu ukumboza izindawo zehlathi eziqhubekayo. Uma ufuna ukulima umhlabathi, tshala i-agroforestry: izihlahla ezivikelwe ezinezikhala ezibanzi ezizothuthukisa umhlabathi, zinikeze indawo yokuhlala izilwane zasendle, indawo yokukhosela kanye nefolishi engase ibe khona ezilwaneni zasemapulazini futhi yakhe ipulazi elihle lezinhlobonhlobo zezinto eziphilayo.
  5. Buka futhi ujabulele izilwane zasendle. Uma ulakha bazofika.”

I-Forest Midwife Documentary

I-Forest Midwife iyidokhumentari emfushane yesinema, elandela uhambo luka-Catherine Cleary ekuguquleni ipulazi e-Co. Roscommon, e-Ireland, libe yihlathi nezilwane zasendle [20].

Ungavakashela iwebhusayithi yabo ukuze uthole ukuhlolwa eduze nawe: Umbelethisi Wehlathi - Imicimbi

Ukuxhuma kabusha neMvelo

It is essential that we work to restore the forest cover of Ireland to tackle issues such as climate change and biodiversity loss. There is certainly a need for widescale afforestation and reforestation in Ireland, to reach our target of 18% forest cover, and to meet the objectives of the new EU Forest Strategy [21]. However, nature should not be reserved to distant, remote places. We must work to create a shared sense of awe and dedication surrounding nature, and to do this, we must bring nature back into the places we live.

Singalindela kanjani ukuphinde sihlangane nemvelo ngaphandle kokuyibona?

Kukhona inqwaba yezindlela esingathuthukisa ngazo imvelo yendawo ezindaweni zasemakhaya nasemadolobheni, noma ngabe ukuhlwanyela imbewu yezimbali zasendle ekhaya, ukutshala ihlathi emaphandleni, noma ukwakha ihlathi elilingana netafula le-ping pong esikoleni sakho noma endaweni yomsebenzi.

Although these individual actions have a tiny direct impact on the overwhelming environmental crises we face, they can contribute to the broader movement of environmental action by creating a network of habitats – even a pocket forest can provide much-needed shelter and food for local wildlife – and by bringing nature back into our view and our attention. In doing so, we can learn to appreciate it again for its services and its beauty, and we can raise awareness about the need to conserve nature.

Cabanga nje ukuthi zingaki izihlahla esingaba nazo ukube wonke umphakathi ubungatshala ihlathi elinezikhwama.

Ukutshala ihlathi ephaketheni
Isithombe sihlonishwa yi-Pocket Forests

Amaphodikhasti Ahlobene Hhayi Ukuphuthelwa

lwezincwadi

  1. I-Pocket Forests, “Mayelana Namahlathi E-Pocket,” 07 Agasti 2020. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://www.pocketforests.ie/about-pocket-forests. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-28 kuMeyi 2025].
  2. Umnyango Wezolimo, Ukudla Nezasolwandle, “Amaqiniso Ezamahlathi Nezindaba,” 15 April 2025. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-agriculture-food-and-the-marine/publications/forestry-facts-and-news/. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-28 kuMeyi 2025].
  3. I-Trinity College Dublin, “I-Ireland ilahlekelwe cishe wonke amahlathi ayo omdabu – nansi indlela yokuwabuyisa,” 27 February 2023. [Ku-inthanethi]. Iyatholakala: https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/2023/ireland-has-lost-almost-all-of-its-native-forests-heres-how-to -buyisa-zibuye/#:~:text=Naphezu%20its%20green%20image%2C%20Ireland,Ireland%20was%20covered%20in%20trees.. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-28 kuMeyi 2025].
  4. Umnyango Wezolimo, Ukudla kanye Nezasolwandle, "Izibalo Zamahlathi: I-Ireland 2024," Umnyango Wezolimo, Ukudla Nezolwandle, 2024.
  5. I-RTE, “Ikhava yase-Ireland yamahlathi nehlathi inyuka ngo-12%,” 20 March 2024. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0320/1439005-forestry-planting/. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-28 kuMeyi 2025].
  6. eurostat, “eurostat,” 01 December 2024. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Forests,_forestry_and_logging. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-28 kuMeyi 2025].
  7. Government of Ireland: Department of Agriculture, Food & the Marine, “Ireland’s Forest Strategy: Implementation Plan,” 2023.
  8. Iqembu Lebhange Lomhlaba, “Inani labantu basemadolobheni (% yenani labantu) – Ireland,” 2023. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS?locations=IE. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-30 kuMeyi 2025].
  9. I-United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), “Amadolobhakazi nokushintsha kwesimo sezulu,” 2 October 2024. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://www.unep.org/explore-topics/resource-efficiency/what-we-do/cities-and-climate-change. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-30 kuMeyi 2025].
  10. Ithimba Lohulumeni Bezizwe Ngezizwe Ngezinguquko Zesimo Sezulu, “Iphepha Leqiniso Lesifunda – Izindawo Zasemadolobheni. Umbiko Wokuhlola Wesithupha: IQembu Elisebenzayo I – Isisekelo Sesayensi Yezesayensi.”.
  11. Meristem Design, “What is the Urban Greening Factor?,” 21 April 2025. [Online]. Available: https://www.meristemdesign.co.uk/blog/what-is-urban-greening-factor/#:~:text=It%20involves%20the%20use%20of,quality%2C%20and%20reduce%20water%20pollution.. [Accessed 23 April 2025].
  12. I-European Commission, "Ingqalasizinda eluhlaza," 13 March 2025. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/nature-and-biodiversity/green-infrastructure_en. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-30 kuMeyi 2025].
  13. I-Forest Research, "Izinhlobo ze-greenspace," 2018. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools-and-resources/fthr/urban-regeneration-and-greenspace-partnership/types-of-greenspace/. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-23 Ephreli 2025].
  14. T. Semeraro, A. Scarano, R. Buccolieri, A. Santino kanye no-E. Aarrevaara, “Ukuhlelwa Kwezindawo Eziluhlaza Ezisemadolobheni: Umbono Wezemvelo Ngezinzuzo Zomuntu,” Umhlaba, no. 10, p. 105, 2021.
  15. Pocket Forests, “Ekhaya,” 26 February 2024. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://www.pocketforests.ie/. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-28 kuMeyi 2025].
  16. Pocket Forests, “Inqubo Yethu,” 26 February 2024. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://www.pocketforests.ie/our-process. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-28 kuMeyi 2025].
  17. Pocket Forests, “Umthelela Wethu,” 27 February 2024. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://www.pocketforests.ie/our-impact. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-28 kuMeyi 2025].
  18. Oliwia, “Miyawaki Pocket Forest – Comprehensive Guide,” 14 June 2024. [Ku-inthanethi]. Iyatholakala: https://one-more-tree.org/blog/2024/06/14/miyawaki-pocket-forest-comprehensive-guide/. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-28 kuMeyi 2025].
  19. C. Cleary, "Ngithenge indawo eshibhe kakhulu engayithola e-Ireland. Manje ngitshala ihlathi elikhulu kune-St Stephen's Green," The Irish Times, 23 September 2023.
  20. Umbelethisi Wehlathi, “Ekhaya,” 8 Mashi 2025. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://www.theforestmidwife.com/. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-30 kuMeyi 2025].
  21. I-European Commission, "Isu elisha lehlathi le-EU lango-2030," 6 Disemba 2024. [Ku-inthanethi]. Itholakala: https://environment.ec.europa.eu/strategy/forest-strategy_en. [Kufinyelelwe zingama-31 kuMeyi 2025].

Okunye Resources

The podcast that features Jane Findlay can be found here:

S2, E7: Jane Findlay: Lapho Silimaza Imvelo Silimaza Impilo Yethu

 

Uchungechunge oluncane oluhlanganisa uDkt Nadina Galle luyatholakala ku:

UDkt Nadina Galle Podcast Mini-Series

 

IGreening Ireland noCatherine Cleary Full Transcript

Sicela uqaphele ukuthi lokhu kukhiqizwa ngokwedijithali futhi kungase kuqukathe amaphutha athile.

[00:00:00] This is Constructive Voices. Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news views and expert interviews.

UJackie De Burca: Sawubona kuwe. Lona ngu-Jackie De Burca lapha we-Constructive Voices, futhi namuhla ngizodlulisela ku-Sarah futhi owenze inhlolokhono emangalisayo, iziqephu ezimbalwa emuva, futhi uzobe ekhuluma no-Catherine Cleary.

UCatherine ungowesifazane okhuthazayo kakhulu. Ungumbhali, intatheli, kanye ne-CEO kanye nomsunguli we-Pocket Forests. U-Catherine uhlanganyela nathi namuhla ukuxoxa ngamaphrojekthi akhe aphathelene namahlathi kanye nokutshalwa kwemvelo kwasemadolobheni. Ubhale futhi wahlanganisa izincwadi ezine futhi engumgxeki wezindawo zokudlela ze-Irish Times yabo iminyaka engaphezu kwe-10.

Kepha kulezi zinsuku, uCatherine usephendukele emvelweni nasezenzweni zesimo sezulu. Ngo-2020, waqala amaphrojekthi amabili. Enye kwakuwukusungula indawo yokutshala amabhizinisi omphakathi [00:01:00] amahlathi amancane ezindaweni zomphakathi, futhi omunye umsebenzi wawuwukutshala ihlathi lakhe lendabuko endaweni engamahektha angama-40. Ngizonikela kuwe manje, Sarah.

Wamukelekile kakhulu, Catherine.

USarah Austin: Catherine, wamukelekile kakhulu. Siyabonga kakhulu ngokuhlanganyela nathi. Ungathanda ukuthatha isikhashana ukuze uzethule?

UCatherine Cleary: Yebo. Igama lami nginguCatherine Cleary. Ngingumsunguli we-Pocket Forests nombhali kanye nentatheli.

USarah Austin: Ngakho-ke ngingathanda ukufunda okwengeziwe nge-Pocket Forest Organisation.

Ungakwazi yini ukuchaza ukuthi kuyini lokhu kithi nokuthi yini ekugqugquzele ukuthi ukusungule?

UCatherine Cleary: Hhayi-ke, sazimisa ngokwami ​​iPocket Forests, futhi, kanye nomsunguli u-Ashe Conrad Jones emuva ngo-2020 lapho ngicabanga ukuthi abantu abaningi babecabanga ngendlela ehlukile ngomhlaba ngenxa yalokho okwakwenzekile nge-COVID. Impela engxenyeni yethu yeDolobha laseDublin lapho sinendawo encane kakhulu eluhlaza, um, lokho kwaba ngokuzumayo, uh, kwakuphuthuma ngempela, um.

Okwethu, ngicabanga ukuthi u-Ash wahlangana nalo mbono, owavela eJapan ngeminyaka yawo-1970, um, [00:02:00] ebizwa ngokuthi, uh, ibizwe ngokuthi izinto ezihlukahlukene ezahlukene, kodwa amahlathi aseMiyawaki, uh, aqanjwe ngesazi sezitshalo, u-Akira Miyawaki, isazi sezitshalo saseJapane, okwathi, uh, waqala inqubo. Futhi wabe esefikile eYurophu ngo-2015 futhi waphinde wabhapathizwa amahlathi amancane.

So we just set about talking to experts who’d done it across, uh, Europe and in Ireland as well. There’s a, there’s a group who do what they call Coill Beag, working with Anka in a schools program. So as soon as we reached out, we found out. Not only was it very feasible and exciting, but that actually there was a lot of expertise out there that we could, we could tap into.

Ngakho-ke sasuka futhi satshala amahlathi ethu okuqala emuva ebusika obungama-20 buka-2020 nasentwasahlobo ka-2021.

USarah Austin: Futhi-ke mangaki alawa mahlathi ephaketheni owadalile kuze kube manje?

UCatherine Cleary: We’re up to about 125 at the moment. I think some of them will be extremely small. Uh, the size of a single car parking space. Um. And then the others would be [00:03:00] okukhudlwana.

Okukhulu kunawo wonke, kungamamitha-skwele ayikhulu, okucishe kube uhhafu wenkundla yethenisi.

USarah Austin: Hewu. Futhi-ke, ngisho, kithi thina esingazi, yini, lihlanganisani ihlathi ephaketheni? Kuhluke kanjani, mhlawumbe ukuba nengadi evamile yasemadolobheni noma umbhede wezimbali ongase ube nawo ekhaya noma esikoleni?

UCatherine Cleary: Yebo, kunjalo, kuyathakazelisa ngempela ukuthola ukuthi ayini amasiko okuhlelwa kwezindawo zasemadolobheni. Ngakho ngokwesiko senza utshani obuningi, ngakho sizokubiza ngokuthi indawo eluhlaza. Indawo eluhlaza lapho kunenhlabathi ezacile kakhulu futhi nje, ungqimba lotshani, bese lokho kuvame ukugundwa phakathi kweyintshi lempilo yayo ngesikhathi sasehlobo, nakuba kungenzeki mo.

Futhi-ke ngokutshalwa kwezihlahla, zivame ukutshalwa izihlahla zodwa ezihlukene kakhulu. Ngalezo zindawo ezinotshani phakathi kwazo, kunezizathu ezehlukene ezinikeziwe zalokhu, um, imigqa yokubona, eh, iziphathimandla ezithile zendawo futhi, futhi abantu abajabule, abanye abajabulile kakhulu ngombono wokungakwazi ukubona okwenzekayo yonke indawo kuyo yonke indawo, kuzo zonke izindawo zomphakathi.

Ngakho esikwenzayo kubukeka kuhluke kakhulu kukho [00:04:00] lokho. Sitshala izihlahla ezincane kakhulu kunalezo ezivame ukutshalwa. Ziyiziswebhu ezineminyaka engu-2 kuphela, ngakho-ke zincane kakhulu. Itshalwe ngesikhathi sasebusika, um, futhi itshalwe eduze kakhulu ndawonye cishe ngemitha-skwele emithathu, um, okungaba minyene kakhulu uma kuqhathaniswa nokwakheka kwezwe okungokwesiko emadolobheni.

Kodwa umphumela wukuthi bakha le microclimate ngokushesha okukhulu. Umhlabathi uyashintsha, um, futhi senza kancane lowo msebenzi ngaphambi kokuba sitshale noma yini. Lokho kuyingxenye yomehluko wePocket Forest engicabanga ukuthi. Senza iworkshop yokulungisa umhlabathi nemiphakathi ezama ukulingisa izimo ze. Phansi kwehlathi ngokufiphaza utshani bese wengeza izinto ezinokhuni ngaphambi kokuba izihlahla zitshalwe.

Bese siyabuya uma sezivumbuka ngalesi sikhathi sonyaka, kwangathi, uJuni, futhi, eh, sibonise abantu ukuthi yini abayitshalile ngoba sebeyakwazi ukuyikhomba ngokuma kweqabunga kanye. Uyazi, bajabule ngalowo mqondo wokuthi leli yihlathi abanalo manje. Bangayinakekela, bangayisebenzisa njengendawo yokuhlangana yangaphandle noma ikilasi.

Um, futhi, futhi nje indawo ejabulisayo ongaba kuyo. Futhi [00:05:00] kanye nengcebo yezinambuzane nokuphila kwezinyoni nokuphila kwenhlabathi, ukuthi lokho kuzodalwa ngenxa yemizamo yabo. Ngakho-ke isekelwe kakhulu emphakathini. Futhi, lokho akuyona into evamile yokwakheka kwezindawo zasemadolobheni. Yilowo umsebenzi. Lokho kuvame ukwenziwa ngosonkontileka. Umh, muva nje ngenze okuthile ngakithi futhi, uyazi, bahlanganisa indawo, baletha imishini, uyazi, amadoda avikela izindlebe ayawenza umsebenzi.

Umh, ngakho-ke kuncane kakhulu ukusebenzelana kwabantu bendawo abahlala kuleyo ndawo. Nakuba ngicabanga ukuthi uma abantu bendawo abahlala kuleyo ndawo empeleni bayasiza ekwakheni indawo eluhlaza, futhi maningi amathuba okuba bayinakekele futhi bajabule ngayo.

USarah Austin: Nakanjani. Lapho uqhubeka uhlanganyela nayo, lapho uba nokunakekela okwengeziwe ngayo, yilapho uba nothando oluningi ngayo.

UCatherine Cleary: Yeah

USarah Austin: futhi nginesiqiniseko sokuthi, njengoba abaningi bethu besenza izingadi kancane phakathi nobhubhane, ngicabanga ukuthi kwenza abantu baxhumeke kakhulu nemvelo, baxhumeke kakhulu nokudla ababekulima, nezitshalo ezibazungezile. Uyawubona umzamo ongena kuwo futhi ngicabanga ukuthi abantu maningi amathuba okuthi, bakhokhe [00:06:00] ukunaka lokho futhi ngethemba nokusebenzisa insiza.

UCatherine Cleary: Yebo, lokho, lelo gama lokunaka. Thina, thina, eh, senze ingxoxo yephaneli kuleli sonto empeleni, futhi lokho kunaka kwegama kwakuyigama lokuthatha ekhaya. Uyazi, lapho sinaka izinto, kuwukuthi, uh, uMary Oliver, imbongi, unomugqa omangalisayo othi “Ukunaka kuyisiqalo sokuzinikela”. Ngakho lapho sinaka izinto mhlawumbe esingakaze siziqaphele ngaphambili, lapho sesazi uhlobo olulodwa lwesihlahla bese silubona yonke indawo.

Kukhona okuthile okujabulisa kakhulu okwenzeka kukho kokubili, imvelo ngokwayo kanye nendlela abantu abazoyinakekela ngayo, kodwa futhi neyethu, inhlalakahle yethu yengqondo. Ngicabanga ukuthi sinjalo, sibheke into enkulu futhi engaphandle kwethu, kodwa exhumene kakhulu nathi futhi enempilo kakhulu. Uyazi, uma sesinikeze izimo ezifanele kuncane kakhulu okufanele sikwenze ukuze sisize lokhu kuchume, futhi ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kuyasiduduza kakhulu.

Impela ngesikhathi se-COVID, ngicabanga ukuthi abantu bathole ukudonsela kulokho. Babengaqondi ukuthi kungani, kodwa bona, babefuna ukufika emvelweni futhi, futhi babone into ethile esebenzayo futhi, futhi eyayingabhidliki ngendlela eyayizwakala ngayo. [00:07:00]

USarah Austin: Mm. Futhi-ke ubani ongasebenza naye kakhulu? Ingabe kungaba nezikole eziningi noma ezinye izinhlangano?

UCatherine Cleary: Yebo, izikole ziyingxenye enkulu futhi kuhle ukusebenzisana nesikole ngoba zingabanikazi, ngokuvamile zingabanikazi besizinda sazo futhi zingakwazi ukuya esikhathini esizayo.

Um, uyazi, sizobe sithuthukisa zonke izinhlobo zemibono ukuze basebenzise ihlathi, noma ngabe ukusebenzisa izinto zasehlathini ukuziletha ekwenzeni ubuciko noma ukwenza ukhuni, um, izingxenye zesikole nokufunda. Ngakho izikole zinhle kakhulu. Siphinde sasebenza namabhizinisi angase abe nendawo yawo noma azoxhasa isikole noma ihlathi lomphakathi wendawo.

Um, amaqembu okuhlala nawo amnandi. Eh, sisebenzisana. Iziphathimandla eziningi zendawo nazo. Iphrojekthi ethokozisayo eDolobheni laseMonaghan kulo nyaka lapho senza khona amaphrojekthi ayisishiyagalombili ahlukene ezindaweni ezincane eziluhlaza. Um, zonke zixhumene nemiphakathi kanye nezakhamizi. Ngakho-ke, niyazi, kuzoba nohlobo oluhle lokuxhumanisa izifiso zezinhlobonhlobo zezinto eziphilayo emadolobheni [00:08:00] ngalo mbono wokuletha lezi, lezi zihlahla zomdabu kanye nezihlahlana.

Ezindaweni lapho kuhlala abantu abaningi. Uyazi, kusobala ukuthi lezi azisoze zaba khona, um, ngokwanele ukwenza amahlathi ethu amboze afinyelele ku-18%, okuyisifiso sezwe lonke okwamanje kuze kufike ku-18% ngo-2050. Sesicishe sibe ngu-11% kuze kube manje. Ngakho lokho kusho ukutshala amahektha ayizi-8,000 ezihlahla njalo ngonyaka, niyazi, ezindaweni zasemaphandleni zase-Ireland ikakhulukazi.

Eh, manje asisasondelani nokuhlangana nalokho. I-Target ne-Pocket Forest ngokusobala mancane, mancane, um. Amaphrojekthi. Kodwa abakwenzayo baletha, um, babuyela kulelo gama, ukunaka, baletha lezi zitshalo emehlweni abantu, lapho behlala khona, lapho bechitha khona isikhathi sabo, niyazi, lapho abangase bazibone khona nsuku zonke futhi babone izinguquko abadlula kuzo, phakathi nezinkathi zonyaka.

Ngoba okuningi okuzokwenziwa, iphrojekthi yokutshalwa kabusha kwamahlathi, izokwenziwa ezindaweni ezikude kakhulu emhlabeni wangasese lapho abantu bengakwazi ngempela ukusebenzelana nayo. Ngakho [00:09:00] imayelana nokuletha. Kuleyo phrojekthi yokutshalwa kabusha kwamahlathi, esiyenza ngokwesilinganiso ezweni lonke, ngethemba ezindaweni lapho abantu abachitha khona isikhathi sabo esiningi, okungamadolobhakazi namadolobha.

USarah Austin: Ngalinye lala mahlathi ephaketheni linomthelela omncane kakhulu, kodwa, kodwa-ke ngokuletha ukunaka kulo, ngethemba lokuthi lenza intsha ethile ezoba nesithakazelo esikhulu ekuthatheni isinyathelo sezulu esikhathini esizayo, okungenzeka ke iqhubeke. Ukubamba iqhaza kakhulu esenzweni sezemvelo futhi mhlawumbe kuzotshala izihlahla eziningi, ngethemba, futhi kungaholela esenzweni esikhulu.

UCatherine Cleary: Nakanjani. Ngicabanga ukuthi kunocwaningo oluhle ngempela olubonisa ukuthi lapho abantu beqala ukunakekela imvelo, uyazi, yabo, konke ukucabanga kwabo kwemvelo kuyashintsha. Uyazi, ukukhathalela, um, ukugcina iplanethi ikwazi ukuhlala futhi uthathe izinyathelo ezinhle zemvelo futhi ukwenze njengoba, njengomphakathi uletha wonke lawo mandla amahle.

Uyazi, akuwena weirdo wedwa laphaya oyi-hugger yesihlahla futhi uyazi, [00:10:00] empeleni esizweni sabantu abakukhathalelayo ngempela lokhu nokuthi ubani, um. Ndawonye noma ukuletha amandla adingekayo kukho. Um, uyazi, ngoba ngezikhathi ezihlukahlukene abantu bangase babe matasa kakhulu noma bangakwazi ukuhileleka.

Futhi yebo, injabulo yokukwenza kubonisa abantu isenzo esihle esibambekayo ngempela. Ukhonkolo cishe igama elingalungile, kodwa uyazi, isenzo saphansi, um, abangasithatha. Engadini yabo. Futhi uyazi, uma benengadi encane abangayenza, bangakwenza lokhu ngesikhathi esithile noma emphakathini wabo.

Bese lokho kufaka imibono yokuthi singaseseka kanjani izithombe ezinkulu nabalimi nabanikazi bomhlaba.

USarah Austin: Lokho kungikhumbuza-ke ukuthi wena ukuthathele kwelinye izinga. Um, ukutshala ihlathi lakho lendabuko. Ungasitshela kancane ngaleli hlathi olitshale e-County Roscommon?

UCatherine Cleary: Yebo.

Mina nomyeni wami uLiam sathenga indawo, eRoscommon. Um, kwakuyi-. Umhlaba oshibhe kunawo wonke esasiwuthola ngaleso sikhathi. Futhi, ngezigaba ezintathu ezahlukene. Akukho konke kokukodwa [00:11:00] indawo. Kungukuthi, ihlukaniswe cishe ngemayela nengxenye phakathi kwazo zonke lezi zindawo ezintathu. Um, futhi ipulazi elincane. Lalidliwe, um, umnikazi walo wokuqala kwase kuba abalimi abangomakhelwane ababeqashisa indawo.

Kakhulu, sijahe kakhulu, kunzima kakhulu ukulima. Um, uyazi, uhlobo lwemali encane. Isilinganiso semali engenayo oyibona kubalimi eRoscommon iwubufakazi balobo bunzima balo mhlaba. Ngakho-ke yayiphelele, sazizwa, um, ukusungula ihlathi lendabuko. Ngakho thina, sasebenza noForester, uBernard Kiernan endaweni, futhi wayikhipha ilayisensi, eh, emnyangweni ngemva kwesikhashana.

Ngicabanga ukuthi kuthathe cishe unyaka ukuthi lokho kwenzeke. Ngakho kade ihamba kancane, kodwa isitshalwe manje iminyaka emibili futhi, um. Satshala izihlahla ezingama-20, cishe ezingaba ngu-26,000 emhlabeni, lapho ngithi, kwakuyithimba lochwepheshe kakhulu, abatshali abanekhono elimangalisayo abafika futhi [00:12:00] itshalwe 18.

Ngakho-ke okwamanje besilokhu sibanakile ngesizini edlule yokukhula, sivele sinyathele utshani bese sigijimela ngakubo ukuze sizame ukuthola ukukhanya okwengeziwe kubo. Futhi manje kule nkathi, iningi labo lingaphezu kwalolo tshani kanye ne-rush line. Ngakho-ke zilungile impela, ziyasuka nje manje futhi sekuyaba, kunokuba insimu yamaxhaphozi, uma ubheka ngaphesheya, uyabona ukuthi yinsimu yezihlahla noma amasimu amaningana ezihlahla.

Um, ngakho kuyajabulisa kakhulu kanye nezilwane zasendle ezikhona. Amazing. Kade sibuka izinwele zigijima phakathi, phakathi, nxazonke, zizungeze utshani namaxhaphozi futhi ukuphila kwezinyoni kuyamangaza ngalesi sikhathi sonyaka. Kunjalo nje, kuningi nje lapho.

USarah Austin: Kuzwakala njengetheku elincane.

UCatherine Cleary: Kunjalo ngempela. Yebo, kunjalo ngempela.

USarah Austin: Futhi kuyini, hlobo luni lomsebenzi okufanele ukwenze ukuze, ukuze ulondoloze lokhu, ukuze uhlobo ukhuthaze, izihlahla zikhule?

UCatherine Cleary: Okwamanje, eh, sidinga ukwenza isiqiniseko sokuthi lezi, izihlahla ezincane zithola ukukhanya okwengeziwe. Ngakho futhi, ukunyathela kancane. Um, abanye, abanye, uh, [00:13:00] abanikazi bazofafaza, eh, izimila eziqhudelanayo, kodwa ngeke sikwenze lokho ngoba kusobala ukuthi asifuni umhlabathi ushevu. Futhi kunobufakazi bokuthi uma wenza lokho, uthola umonakalo omningi onogwaja ezihlahleni zakho ngoba kunendawo yebhere eduze kwezihlahla.

Futhi empeleni utshani abuqhudelani ngempela nezihlahla, kunjalo. Ukuhlinzeka ngokunye okuncane, kwe, um, indawo yokukhosela nesivikelo kuyo. Mm-hmm. Ngakho-ke okwamanje, ukwenza nje, ukwenza isiqiniseko sokuthi, um, azikho izinhlobo ezihlaselayo ezingenayo. Uh, ngenhlanhla besingenayo, besinesitshalo esisodwa se-rhododendron, esasingathwa ngaso ngokushesha.

Umh, kumele sikubhekisise lokho. Sidinga ukugcina izinyawo zethu ziphansi ngempela, futhi, futhi sibheke ukuthi kwenzekani. Yenza isiqiniseko sokuthi azikho izinyamazane ezifika zenza umonakalo omkhulu, ngoba asinayo inyamazane ebiyelwe. Kodwa yebo, iminyaka emibili noma emithathu ezayo. Yilolo hlobo lokunakekela, ukugcina izinhlobo ezihlaselayo, izinyamazane kanye ne-rhododendron ikakhulukazi ngaphandle kwehlathi.

Bese kuthi-ke cishe unyaka wesihlanu noma wesithupha, siqale ukwenza izindlela zehla ezihlahleni, mhlawumbe sinciphise ezinye zezihlahla ukuze, ukuze [00:14:00] ukuhlinzeka ngemiphetho nokucaciswa nezinto ezinjalo ngoba zingavele, futhi, zithuthukise izinhlobonhlobo zezinto eziphilayo, niyazi, uhlobo olulodwa lwe-canopy evaliwe. Ihlathi lihle, kodwa. Uma unqenqema engeziwe kanye nezikhala ezengeziwe kanye nezindawo ezimanzi kakhulu kanye nazo zonke izinhlobo zezindawo zokuhlala ezihlukene onazo kulokho, kuba ngcono.

Bese siba namahektha angaba ngu-13 angatshaliwe. Ngakho-ke futhi, sidinga nje ukwenza isiqiniseko sokuthi noma yiziphi izilwane zasendle lapho, izidleke ezihlala phansi, izinyoni noma ama-waders, uyazi, zivikelwe futhi, futhi ziyakwazi ukujabulela indawo yazo. Ngakho-ke kukhona uhlobo lokuyishiya yodwa, kodwa futhi vele ubeke iso esiteji, ngicabanga.

USarah Austin: Futhi ngakho-ke usanda kuboniswa idokhumentari, umbelethisi wasehlathini, konke mayelana nale phrojekthi yehlathi. Futhi yini le documentary ehlolayo futhi wawuyini umgomo?

UCatherine Cleary: Le filimu yenziwe umdidiyeli wefilimu obizwa ngokuthi, uBeta Begar, futhi yena, um, wafaka isicelo eMnyangweni Wezolimo ngaphansi kohlelo lwabo lokuthuthukisa amahlathi, um, uhlelo lokuxhaswa ngezimali, kwevidiyo, noma kwefilimu.[00:15:00]

Futhi bekujabulisa ngempela, uhlobo, ngicabanga ukuthi ukwenza ikhathalogi noma noma ukubhalwa phansi kwalokho ebesizama ukukwenza. Ngakho wathwebula nathi ngonyaka odlule ngoFebhuwari lapho sinomhlangano wabangane nomakhelwane abavela endaweni bezosisiza ngokutshala izihlahla. Futhi waxoxisana nabalimi bendawo ababethakaseleka kakhulu nge.

Imizwa mayelana nokuza kwamahlathi ezweni nokuthi kuwukulahlekelwa kangakanani ukulima kanye, kanye nohlobo losizi olungaphansi kwalokho, ukuthi, uyazi, uma ubeka umhlaba wakho, uma ungumlimi, uma ubeka umhlaba wakho ezihlahleni, kusho ukuphela kwesikhathi sakho sokulima. Um. Futhi ukuthi abantu bayanyamalala ezweni uma izihlahla zifika emhlabathini.

Ngakho-ke, uyazi, bekumnandi ukufaka lawo mazwi efilimini kanye nezwi lami, uyazi, njengoba, njengoSean, omunye womakhelwane bethu ebhekisele kimi intombazane yasedolobheni yehla izokwenza lokhu. Mm-hmm. Um, ngoba into yokugcina esiyifunayo ukuthi lokhu kube into enjalo. Iphelele, uyazi, [00:16:00] izazi zezemvelo, noma ngubani ongumnikazi womhlaba, uma bekwazi, niyazi, uma bengatshala ihektare lawo ezihlahleni, umhlaba ofanele.

Manje, hhayi ngempela. Niyazi, umhlaba we-bog kanye, nezindawo ezinjalo. Amaxhaphozi, ngokuvamile enza umsebenzi ongcono kakhulu wesimo sezulu kanye nezinhlobonhlobo zezinto eziphilayo kunokuba angenza uma etshalwe ngezihlahla. Ngakho-ke, uyazi, kufanele wazi ukuthi yini otshala kuyo. Kodwa ziningi, izindlela eziningi zokubeka abanikazi bomhlaba nabalimi ukubeka izihlahla emhlabathini.

Ngakho-ke idokhumentari yayimayelana, um, ihlola eyethu, imizwa yethu. Ukunamathela ezweni kanye nemizwa yethu ngezihlahla kanye ne-Beta yayinakho, okwakuzwakala kimi njengombono ohlanya kancane ekuqaleni, kodwa kusetshenzwe kahle ukunikeza izwi kwesinye sezihlahla ezithangweni epulazini, okuyisihlahla somlotha esidala.

Um, ngakho wathuma u-Kerry Ní Dochartaigh, oyimbongi emangalisayo. Inkondlo ezwini lalesi sihlahla, esibizwa ngokuthi i-Mother Tree, futhi efakwe kuyo yonke i-documentary futhi ivezwe [00:17:00] ngumlingisi omangalisayo uMary McAvoy, otshale ihlathi lakhe epulazini lomndeni wakhe. Um, ngakho-ke lokho kwengezwe uhlobo lwesendlalelo somlingo kuso.

ngiyazizwa. Um, embukisweni ngamunye ngihlala ngimangazwa indlela izethameli ezilalela ngayo. Um, uyazi, abantu bayayithakasela le ndaba futhi, um. Mina, ngiyamangala ngendlela abantu abanentshisekelo ngayo kuyo nokuthi kwenzekani futhi, futhi uyazi, yindaba eguqukayo ngoba sithwebule kuphela, ngicabanga ukuthi bekuyizinyanga eziyisithupha noma eziyisishiyagalombili zokuqopha.

Ngakho sasuka, niyazi, isikhathi sokutshala sasebusika saya ehlobo. Lapho yonke into iluhlaza futhi, futhi kungazelelwe konke kuluhlaza futhi kunhle, asizange sibambe ubusika, niyazi, lapho kuba neqhwa kakhulu futhi kuneqhwa. Ngakho-ke ngethemba ukuthi kuzoba nohlobo oluthile, um, inguqulo ende, noma, futhi ngiyazi ukuthi i-Beta inethemba lokusebenzisana, eh, abalimi nabanikazi bamahlathi ukwenza uchungechunge olude lwamafilimu mayelana nomsebenzi wabo, um, ngoba abantu abaningi bangakubona lokhu, um, hhayi ngaphezu kukaSean. [00:18:00] I-documentary enhle ka-Ronayne, um, no-Kathleen Harris.

Ibizwa ngokuthi i-Birdsong lapho, niyazi, iqopha wonke amaculo ezinyoni ezweni lonke. Ngicabanga ukuthi leyo ndaba yomuntu noma abantu noma umphakathi wabantu nemvelo nokuthi basebenza kanjani ukuzama ukusiza imvelo ngoba, uyazi, inamandla kakhulu. Um, amandla, amandla azokwenza umsebenzi omningi.

Uyazi, wena, uthatha isinyathelo esisodwa esihle futhi imvelo ithatha 10. Ngakho, niyazi, lezo zinhlobo zezindaba ngicabanga ukuthi ziningi kakhulu, um. Kuyakhuthaza, ngethemba kubantu, kodwa futhi kuyaduduza ukwazi ukuthi kukhona abantu abenza lo msebenzi. Umh, ngoba isikhathi esiningi asizwa ngayo.

USarah Austin: Nakanjani. Ungazizwa sengathi uwedwa kakhulu ezenzweni zakho kwesinye isikhathi, futhi kuyajabulisa ukwazi ukuthi kunomphakathi laphaya.

UCatherine Cleary: Ngokuqinisekile.

USarah Austin: Futhi ingabe usuyitholile impendulo evela kubalimi nakubanini bomhlaba, ngokwesibonelo, kudokhumentari noma ngisho ubuso nobuso kuphrojekthi?

UCatherine Cleary: Yebo, ngisho,

the, wethu, sibe nomlimi ezilalelini eGalway, um, ngoLwesibili ngenkathi thina [00:19:00] sibe nokuhlolwa eNyuvesi yaseGalway lapho sinephrojekthi enhle yokuhlola, exhaswe yi-Lives to Good Foundation.

Um, sibe nokwembulwa kophawu lwethu lapho, sabe sesenza, ukuboniswa kwe-documentary futhi saba nomlimi ezilalelini ongumlimi wezinto eziphilayo. Futhi wayecela abantu ukuthi babheke ngempela, uyazi, namuhla udleni? Ingabe udle ukudla okuphilayo okuvela epulazini lase-Ireland? Uyazi, ingabe uzimisele ukukhokha, inani lalokho kumlimi kanye nendima thina njengabathengi esidlala kuyo, endleleni umhlaba wethu osetshenziswa ngayo nokuthi usetshenziselwa ini.

Um, we had a panel member, Dr. Karen Morrisey, who’s an environmental economist, but she grew up on a farm and. She’s got, so she’s got a huge understanding of that culture and how it works. Um, but she’s also got a huge understanding of the need to do less beef and dairy in Ireland and do much more sustainable agriculture, whether it’s, you know, growing vegetables and crops that we will need if we, you know, [00:20:00] noma ngandlela thize ngeke bangene bevela phesheya ngoba iningi lalezo zilimo ziphuma phesheya manje.

Um, kanye nemithelela yemvelo yokufuywa ngokujulile. Ngakho-ke lo mlimi wayekhuluma kakhulu mayelana, uyazi, ukulima okuhle kanye nohlobo lokuthi, uma uthola inyama yakho kumlimi oqotho, ovuselelayo noma ophilayo wase-Ireland, khona-ke, kuyinto enhle ngempela ukukwazi ukudla. Ngeke ukwazi ukukukhokhela ukudla nsuku zonke ngoba izobiza kakhulu, futhi lokho cishe kuyinto enhle empilweni yakho nempilo yeplanethi.

Ngakho-ke, yebo, izingxoxo ezithokozisayo kanye nokubonisa omunye wabalimi ukuthi ubani. Icacisa kakhulu ifilimu mayelana nalokho kudabuka nosizi okwenzeka lapho, lapho amapulazi etshalwa, um, phezulu ezihlahleni, manje efuna ukutshala enye yezwe lakhe ngehlathi lendabuko, ngicabanga ukuthi ngiphefumulelwe futhi ngokubona nokuba yingxenye yalokho esikwenzile.

Uh, ukuze ubone ukuthi lezi zingxoxo, uma zenzeka ubuso nobuso, ziningi kangakanani. Ivulekele wonke umuntu [00:21:00] isikhundla. Uyazi, akukho okubi njengokungena emzileni noMlimi ku-inthanethi. Ngangivame ukukwenza. Angisakwenzi ngoba indawo enobuthi impela, lapho okungavunyelwana khona ubuso nobuso kuzovele kuphenduke umugqa omkhulu.

Um. Nokubiza amagama nomqondo wokuthi sisohlotsheni oluthile lwempi uyahlanya ngoba sonke sikulento, sonke sisemkhunjini owodwa lapha. Mm-hmm. Futhi, niyazi, sonke sincike emhlabathini wethu. Sonke sincike emanzini ahlanzekile, emoyeni ohlanzekile. Um, futhi ziningi izinto ezinhle ngempela ezingenziwa kuleli zwe elihle esinenhlanhla yokuhlala kulo, ukulenza libe nempilo kuwo wonke umuntu.

Ngakho-ke kufanele sikhulume ngamaphimbo aphezulu kakhulu embonini, okuyiwo. Izinsizakusebenza kahle kakhulu. Um, uyazi, banayo yonke imali futhi bangakhokha bonke ababalisi. Um, futhi sidinga nje ukuxoxa izindaba ezingcono nezindaba eziyiqiniso, ngoba okuningi esikutshelwayo mayelana nesimo sohlelo lwethu lwezolimo akulona iqiniso.

USarah Austin: [00:22:00] Kubaluleke kakhulu ukuba nalezi zingxoxo ezivulelekile lapho sinezwi lawo wonke umuntu ikakhulukazi, labalimi abanakekela umhlabathi omningi ezweni lonke, um, futhi sinikeze indawo lapho labo abathanda ukuthatha isinyathelo ngemvelo, ngoba isimo sezulu sinendawo lapho bengezwa khona izwi labo noma lapho ngisho noma bekwazi, abazi ukuthi baqale kuphi, bangakwazi kuphi.

Yiba naleyo ngxoxo futhi uthole ukuthi yiziphi izinyathelo ezincane esingazithatha sonke futhi sibonise abanye ukuthi akusho ukuthi, njengoba ushilo ekuqaleni manje, ungumuntu ogone isihlahla uma ufuna ukuthatha isinyathelo esincane.

UCatherine Cleary: Yebo. Kuningi mayelana nomuzwa wakho wokuba ungubani futhi ngibona uJackie esanda kufakwa, um, isixhumanisi sokukhuluma izihlahla, e-Amsterdam.

Kufanele ngikubheke lokho. Ngiyabonga Jackie. Um, yebo, yilokho okushiwo, um. Uyazi, kunokuziqhenya okukhulu phakathi kwabalimi abasebasha, futhi ngike ngezwa kukhulunywa ngakho ngezindlela ezahlukahlukene, uyazi, ukuthi baphumelela kangakanani, ukuthi mkhulu kangakanani umhlambi wabo, ukuthi basebenza kanzima kangakanani ngendlela efanayo, uyazi, ukuthi sonke sikulolu hlobo. [00:23:00] yokukhathazeka ngokuba matasa nokubaluleka futhi, nokuqhubeka nokukhula nokukhula.

Futhi uma ungakwazi ukushintshela ekuziqhenyeni okukhulu ngalokhu inani lezinhlobo zezinyoni enginazo epulazini lami. Lezi izinombolo zezihlahla zomdabu ezikhula Wena. Kufanele eze nomuzwa wokuziqhenya. Futhi lowo muzwa wokuzigqaja kufanele ufakwe phakathi ngoba imali ikhona. Uyazi, kunenzuzo enkulu ukutshala ihlathi lemvelo manje emapulazini amaningi aseceleni kanye nomsebenzi omncane kakhulu kunokuzama ukulima umhlambi wenkomo.

Um, kodwa nokho awukabi nabo abalimi abakwenzayo. Uh, ngakho-ke kukhona okunye okumele kuhambe. Um. Yilokho okufanele ukunakwa? Uyazi, futhi okwamanje, iseluleko esivamile ukuthi kufanele wandise ama-calories owakhiqizayo epulazini lakho ngoba lokho, uyazi, yilokho, yilokho okuphumelelayo okumele ukwenze.

Uyazi, ibuyela emuva ku-2015 lapho, lapho, um. [00:24:00] Inani lobisi lasuswa futhi abalimi bakhuthazwa ngempela amabhange, ngosopolitiki, yiwo wonke umuntu ukuthi alime. Izilwane eziningi kakhulu kunomhlaba noma izinsiza zokwenza. Umh, kanti sebezifake ezikweletini ezinkulu. Banempilo ematasatasa ngendlela emangalisayo manje.

Um, and these herds are pumping out milk. But you know, we’ve seen the effects on water quality. We’ve seen the effects on mental health as well. I think there’s a huge discussion there to be had with farmers about their mental health and what the benefits they can get from actually taking a step back from commodity farming, intensive farming, and looking at what their previous generations did.

Futhi njengoba ngisho, ukuziqhenya ngenye into ngaphandle kobukhulu bomhlambi.

USarah Austin: Ngiyabonga kakhulu, Catherine. Lokho bekungukuthi, ngicabanga ukuthi wenza umsebenzi omningi, hhayi nje ngokwezenzo, kodwa ngokwemfundo kanye nalokho esingakwenza sonke, izinyathelo ezincane, ezincane esingazithatha, kanye nezinga elikhulu lesistimu. [00:25:00] izinguquko futhi.

UCatherine Cleary: Yebo, futhi sithemba ukuthi sizokwazi ukwabelana, uyazi, esikufundile ngokwenza amahlathi ephaketheni. Eminyakeni emihlanu edlule, uyazi, faka uhlobo olwengeziwe lwezinsiza kuwebhusayithi yethu ngokuhamba kwesikhathi kulo nyaka lapho abantu bengakwenza lokhu ngokwabo futhi sizo, uyazi, sizobanika zonke izinyathelo, um, ngoba sibona ukuthi ziningi kakhulu esingakwenza futhi cishe sesibhukhwe ngokugcwele kulo nyaka.

Um. Ngakho-ke, uyazi, indlela yokukala ukusuka lapha ukuya phambili, ukunikeza abantu amakhono namathuluzi, uqiniseke ukuthi bangakwazi ukufinyelela ezihlahleni zomdabu zase-Ireland ezitshalwe kahle kanye nengxube efanele, yendawo yabo. Futhi, bese ngethemba ukuthi singathola lokhu kwenzeka ezindaweni eziningi, eziningi.

USarah Austin: Kuyakhanya. Futhi abantu bangathola kuphi okwengeziwe futhi baxhumane nawe ephaketheni Amahlathi?

UCatherine Cleary: Ngakho-ke amahlathi ephaketheni, wonke igama elilodwa, okungukuthi. Um, futhi kukhona ulwazi lapho i-imeyili ongasithinta ngayo noma, um, yebo, ngokusebenzisa iwebhusayithi cishe iyona engcono kakhulu. Uma useGalway naseNyuvesi yaseGalway, kukhona, ungabheka iphrojekthi yethu yokuhlola lapho. Ingemuva kwebhilidi le-ILAS ku [00:26:00] ikhempasi esenyakatho futhi kukhona ikhodi ye-QR ethandekayo lapho singathanda ukuthi wenze inhlolovo futhi usazise.

Ucabangani ngakho. Uzizwa kanjani ngesikhala, ngoba ingxenye yalokho, ngicabanga ukuthi ingxenye yalokho esingathanda ukukwenza manje ukuthola olunye ucwaningo. Ulwazi oluvela kubantu ngalokho abanakho, ukuthi bazizwa kanjani ngesikhala. Siyazi ukuthi sizizwa kanjani ngakho nokuthi singaceba kangakanani. Sinomuzwa wokuthi, uyazi, ukunotha ezokwengeza ezindaweni zasemadolobheni, kodwa, eh, singathanda ngempela impendulo evela kubantu abavakashele lezo zindawo ukuthi bacabangani ngazo.

Bangaphinde bavakashele ihabhu yedijithali ekuThomas Street. Ngaphandle kwekhofi yesiqukathi, sinehlathi elincane e-Skip and. Hlala futhi uphuze ikhofi lakho lapho futhi ugeze ihlathi elincane endaweni yasemadolobheni kakhulu. Um, futhi senza izinkundla zokucobelelana ngolwazi ngenyanga ezayo endaweni yeDijithali. Azoba mahhala kubantu, kodwa bazodinga ukuwabhukha ku-inthanethi.

Futhi singase sicele umnikelo omncane ngoba nje lapho abantu bebhukha ama-workshops amahhala, kwesinye isikhathi abafiki. Uh, ngakho, uh, yebo, ngakho bazobe beqala ngoJuni. Kuzoba nezinkundla zokucobelelana ngolwazi ngoLwesithathu njalo ngoLwesithathu, [00:27:00] isikhathi sesidlo sasemini ngoJuni, uh, kuhabhu yedijithali. Ngakho-ke singathanda ukuthi abantu beze kulokho.

Futhi futhi bangabhukha ngewebhusayithi noma basilandele ku-Instagram lapho siku-PocketForests igama elilodwa.

USarah Austin: Kuyakhanya lokho. Ngiyabonga kakhulu, Catherine. Ngiyijabulele kakhulu ingxoxo yethu namuhla.

UCatherine Cleary: Kubonga mina. Ngiyabonga, Sarah.

UJackie De Burca: Ngiyabonga kakhulu, uCatherine noSarah. Leyo kwakuyingxoxo enhle kakhulu futhi kunezinto ezavela phakathi nengxoxo yenu esizozifaka ekhasini lohlelo.

That are relevant to, for example, uh, Dr. Nadina Galle, who is the person who originally told us about the talking trees in Amsterdam. Absolutely fascinating as well, and very much linked to Catherine’s work and what came up during this interview. So we’re gonna, you know. Pop that into the episode page, so you can also explore that as well, because it’s very much interlinked.

Senze uchungechunge noDkt. Nadina Holla ngo-2024. Uchungechunge oluncane futhi luyakhuthaza kakhulu. [00:28:00] Futhi, ngaphandle kwalokho, kunesinye isiqephu engingathanda ukusibala esixhumene kakhulu nendlela impilo nemvelo okuyikho. Zihlangene futhi zihlangene noJane Finley. Konke lokhu kuzoba sekhasini leziqephu ukuze ukwazi ukujula kulezi zihloko.

Futhi qiniseka ukuthi ubheka imininingwane ebalulekile ekhasini lesiqephu ongayithola kuhlelo lwakho lokusebenza lwe-podcast noma kuwebhusayithi yethu. Okwakhayo. voices.com futhi kukhona ulwazi lapho oluhlobene nalokho uCatherine akusho mayelana nezinkundla zokucobelelana ngolwazi okufanele zibe ngenyanga elandelayo, kodwa ngenxa yokuthi siqopha ngokusobala kusenesikhathi, empeleni zikule nyanga kaJuni futhi zizojabulisa ngempela.

Ngakho ungaphuthelwa. Qiniseka ukuthi uhlola lonke ulwazi lukaCatherine futhi uhlole iwebhusayithi yakhe futhi ucabange ukuya ezingqungqutheleni zokufundisa. Ngiyabonga kakhulu ngokulalela.

Amazwi akhayo lawa.

Ukufika eVancouver Canada
Umnotho Ontantayo uPeter Robbins

2 Amazwana

Shiya amazwana

Ikheli lakho le ngeke ishicilelwe.


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