Zurich A Living Lab for Sustainable Cities With Anna Haas S4, E9

Zurich with Anna Haas Transcript

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Jackie De Burca: [00:00:00] This is Constructive Voices. Constructive Voices, the podcast for the construction people with news views and expert interviews.

But I’m also excited to have Anna Haas. From Neustark here with me today. And in fact, Anna is gonna be one of the first guests who will be talking about the city where she is based in terms of what’s happening there at the moment. And that city is Zurich. Anna, would you like to just introduce yourself though first?

Thank you,

Anna Haas: My name is Anna Haas, I live in Switzerland, close by to Zurich. I’m originally German. I’ve been living in Switzerland for the past round about 10 years and did my studies in Germany and mining engineer by trade mining.

Engineering is not always used to be, so it really has gone into primary and secondary materials processing a lot when I did it, and then started my journey in processing [00:01:00] machines, food processing, working. For a corporate for several years before shifting paths towards the startup world and scene and more into the construction business.

Also, I must admit that I come from a family with a construction background. So my dad has been in the business for over 40 years with his own little consulting engineering firm, and my mom has worked for a large corporate also. construction has really been a dinner table topic and the home I grew up in.

Jackie De Burca: Yeah, yeah. You can’t get away from it. That’s what happens. Now we are gonna be doing an episode that focuses on your work with your company, and that’ll be coming up within the same month as this particular episode. So everybody needs to keep their ears and eyes ready for that. But in the meantime, let’s talk about Zurich.

Zurich has actually been recognized as a leading sustainable city. It’s even topped the ARC Sustainable [00:02:00] Cities Index List in 2016 and in 2024, it’s in position 24. On that list, what are the key initiatives that have maintained Zurich’s reputation in sustainability and how have those evolved since 2016?

Anna Haas: Yeah, great question. I was actually surprised to hear that we topped in in 2016 and have like fallen back so much. I don’t think that so much because of what Zurich did or didn’t do, but more like how other cities actually like chased us up because in a sense there’s a lot of things ongoing. So Zurich actually has like a net zero strategy by 2040 is always heavily investing into public infrastructure and trying to shift mobility.

Away from individual transport toward, or like individual? Yeah. Gasoline, fire, transport, put it that way. Towards bikes, walking and really public infrastructure and with [00:03:00] many also little initiatives starting with parking over bicycle highways across town to even big things and launching carbon dioxide removal.

Campaigns and targets for the city itself. What’s also quite interesting, is also the emphasis on sustainability and public tenders, which has really pushed the topic.

Jackie De Burca: Now how do you personally feel working in Zurich? Especially as someone who’s lived in quite a few places abroad.

Anna Haas: Overall, I would say Switzerland is a very livable country, like it’s very close to nature, and that also projects down to the city of Zurich very much. First thing you need to compare entire Switzerland.

There’s, I think, less people than in London. So Zurich is tiny compared to many or most other big European cities. That makes a big difference in terms of how close nature [00:04:00] is, how accessible, how congested many things are. It has the lake, you have a good view on good days. I really enjoy working in

Jackie De Burca: That sounds really wonderful. Now, this’s ambitious goal of reducing energy consumption to 2000 watts per person by 2050 stands out to me. Can you elaborate, Anna, on the strategies and policies Zurich is implementing to achieve this ambitious target?

Anna Haas: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So my key understanding really is that this is part of the net 0 20 40 strategy and really aims for that long-term goal of 2000 wats as part of that net zero strategy.

Zurich has done a large study on what are the influencing factors on the footprint. Basically, the majority or the biggest influence for individual contribution that has been identified lays in mobility and infrastructure, but really real estate. [00:05:00] So a lot of policies that serve this goal really go into the direction.

Changing behavior around these topics, especially in mobility, what I mentioned earlier, the public transport, also making commuting by car really less attractive. It’s a lot of nudging in that sense. And the other aspect with real estate is also around how well insulated, houses. What is the heating system?

Where do we get the energy from, like the known levers, but. Very well linked to actual projects. And also there’s pilot borrows for many things where things are trialed before they’re rolled out across the entire city. Mm-hmm. and what is also probably very specific to Switzerland and Zurich is the direct democracy and many things like involving the people and getting decisions in on how things should actually be done and driven.

[00:06:00] But that also gets you the buy-in of the population.

Jackie De Burca: That sounds really interesting.

Anna Haas: about that?

Jackie De Burca: Yeah,

Anna Haas: so across Switzerland, Zurich is known as a, I would say, urban versus rural areas. Normal discussion in terms of, okay, how interested are people in vegetarian, vegan diets?

Zurich is very much topping up this list. There’s a lot of consciousness around ecological topics. It’s politically more on the left and like with the green parties than other regions. And when, so the direct democracy works on several levels, right?

You have the country level votes, but they go down to the municipalities. And the people can actually also suggest initiatives. And if you get enough signatures, then they will be before the ballot, And with the population backing, a lot of these green [00:07:00] topics, I just generally call them, you get a lot of these through politically by population buy-in very much.

Jackie De Burca: That sounds like it should be done everywhere really,

Anna Haas: Yes, I’d agree. I’m a big supporter of direct democracy, to be honest. It is also a matter of trust, like trusting the people to make educated choices, trusting the people to also make good overall choices. And I feel like politics is sometimes lacking that at the same time, a smaller country is easier to manage than a large one.

So I think it’s a difficult debate, but I would also really advocate for more. Direct democracy and involving the people.

Jackie De Burca: Certainly. I think if the people feel involved, they have a responsibility and they can see that their wishes are being put forward and considered, which is really important.

Anna Haas: to accept it. You had a choice and that he took it or he didn’t, and that’s it. Absolutely. You don’t [00:08:00] feel so overpowered sometimes, but it’s really more like a empowering thing. Totally. People also. They respect if they don’t get the majorities on it, and you can, if you don’t agree, you can always try again.

Yeah. Sometimes public sentiment really changes over time. Sure.

Jackie De Burca: Yeah. No, I think it’s really excellent. Now, Switzerland boasts impressive recycling rates with statistics around 94% of old class and 81% of pet containers being recycled. How has Zurich contributed to this national achievement on. Are there any local programs driving these high recycling rates?

Anna Haas: It’s an interesting question. I’m aware that there’s like particular program in Zurich that would push that really know more of the general initiatives there are, and they’d include like big also marketing campaigns around town. Just even if you don’t really read it, you’ve seen it again. And then in [00:09:00] all public.

Situations or like semi-public, like in train, I’m commuting to Zurich every day. So when you pass by the train, wherever you go, there’s like an extra bin for pet. And really from early on, from primary school onwards, you are taught on how to recycle things. It really starts there. For me, coming from a different country, it was actually quite interesting to see how much behavior.

Is trained and then also publicly nudged in terms of recycling. And that works quite well because I think the approach is, ongoing effort. And they also see when the recycling rates drop a little bit, then it’s time for another campaign.

Jackie De Burca: So yes, it’s happening from young ages upwards, which is really important to the society, isn’t it?

Anna Haas: Well,

Jackie De Burca: Zurich as a city has made significant strides in promoting car-free lifestyles and enhancing [00:10:00] public transportation. What recent developments have encouraged residents to adopt more sustainable modes of transport?

Anna Haas: also when I started the conversation office, really the bicycle highways around town. So where you actually prioritize bicycle traffic before. Everybody else. And that really gets people to change and shift because they can see that they can actually cross the city much faster by biking.

Instead of taking a car, I’d never take a car in Zurich. I get so annoyed if I sometimes have to because you have to pick something up. But to try to avoid it by any means also, like parking fees are immensely high. So there’s like the both direction, like the negative associations with the undesired behavior and also the.

Supporting of everything else. And recent, what’s been recent, so there’s been a new train or a suburban metro introduced connecting another part of town with more than [00:11:00] buses basically. But with that train to the city, that helped a lot because it makes the transport more efficient and these infrastructure projects are expensive.

But I see them always being prioritized also. Really a reason why it works is because public transport is very reliable, and there’s also high emphasis on that reliability. If you know you have a meeting at eight and you’re not sure whether you have a massive delay and you have to take two trains earlier in other cities, you would then probably opt for another option.

But in Switzerland. It’s like a 98% chance you hit the march, and that really helps.

Jackie De Burca: That must be an amazing experience given that you’ve lived in places that are less efficient.

Anna Haas: Let’s summarize it though.

Jackie De Burca: Yeah. So like just talking about yourself, where you’re located somewhere in the countryside, outside of Zurich, [00:12:00] how much time does it take you to come into Zurich City?

Anna Haas: have. I have four connections an hour, so every 15 minutes basically to go into town, and two of them are express strains and two are a little slower. The breath strain takes me 35 minutes station to station, and then door to door. I basically have 45 minutes to work. That works very well because I walk to the station, take the train, and then I also walk to work again.

Hmm. I feel like it’s a dream because I don’t have to change trains. I can just work while commuting. At the same time. Let’s see, how has it been? Yeah, that’s a perk. Working for Neustark the full-time employees in Switzerland actually get like a full travel pass. Oh, that’s fantastic. Salary. Yeah. It’s really, again, nudged that you take the train and don’t opt for any other option.

And I’ve got, I think, privately, I’ve never owned a car in my entire life. Wow. I, I can’t drive. I try to organize my life. [00:13:00] Also my living situation in a way that it really kinda works quite optimally

Jackie De Burca: with public offerings. So Zurich’s commitment, Anna, to expanding green spaces is also evident with legislation, ensuring that 30% of Switzerland surface is comprised of forests and woodlands.

Now, how does the city balance urban development with this preservation?

Anna Haas: expensive tunneling.

Jackie De Burca: Okay.

Anna Haas: That is definitely one part of it. That doesn’t only have fans because these projects are also lengthy. Like they take a lot of time and they’re very expensive, but once they’re done, usually people really appreciate it.

That’s the main thing, like for really the urban spaces. And as mentioned also like pilot borrowers where you would like trial greening areas and these kind of things, [00:14:00] which really don’t know to the last detail how these initiatives work.

Jackie De Burca: Now also, the city has a focus on sustainable mobility, including extensive cycling and walking networks. How are those integrated with the public transport? Do you know to pro promote seamless travel?

Anna Haas: Yeah, so one big project that’s actually still currently ongoing is like a big bicycle tunnel at the main station so that you could actually have these points connect better to one another.

Also, on big stations, there’s. In regions where you then have a little bit of lack of a public transport, you would always have a mobility in terms of car sharing option at the stations that you can also partially even book. A lot of bicycle parking around the stations.

I think that is how it integrates very well, and I don’t know if you’ve. Been to cities or lived in cities [00:15:00] where they had public transport, but it just didn’t really make sense so that the national rail didn’t connect well And I feel like that has been solved quite well around here.

So that it, it’s not complicated, but it’s planned in a efficient manner. Planning makes a lot of difference It’s not about having something or not having something, but having thought about it makes a lot of difference as well.

Jackie De Burca: Yeah, no, I totally agree. It’s obviously one of the problems in many sort of genres.

If you like healthcare for example, you’ve got disciplines working completely separately from each other, whereas the person is one whole.

Anna Haas: The national train and the regional trains, they all work over one app. It’s not that you need different apps for different ticketing for different service providers, and it’d been some time back more than 10 years that I lived in Barcelona. So by now it might have changed, but I remember they had the ran fair and that was a different system that like the other trains.

And yes, it was [00:16:00] so complicated to even figure it out and to make that easy and accessible is just already such a relief or it. easy entry points. Makes it easier to use. Yes.

Jackie De Burca: So, listen, community, which is obviously at the center of everything, the involvement of the community plays a huge role, doesn’t it, in Zurich’s sustainability efforts.

How are residents, Anna, engaged in co-creating initiatives? I know we’ve touched on it slightly, obviously with direct democracy. That enhance the city’s resilience and environmental stewardship?

Anna Haas: Yeah, I think the pilot borrowers are a great example for that. Looking at the fact that you’re trialing a change of a borrower over maybe a year, and how you could change the setup of the roads for easier walkability or bikeability and disadvantaging the cars again, all once more.

People are usually asked in terms of what makes sense or where would you rather [00:17:00] still have the roads? And then what they do is often ask people to come together on a monthly basis or, the public opportunity not only over QR code to give feedback on things that are currently tested there, but also to come together, discuss.

And then based on these findings, they then create concepts, what to actually implement and what not to. And I think that builds a lot around getting the people together and trying to get as much feedback as possible.

Jackie De Burca: Now, looking ahead, Anna, what upcoming projects or policies in Zurich are there that excites you most in terms of advancing sustainability, resilience and biodiversity?

Anna Haas: It’s really the CDR projects and that Zurich is really also subsidizing carbon dioxide removal and storing it permanently.

they’re really thinking about, okay, even if we’ve done all the measures we can do, there [00:18:00] will be residual emissions left and we have to store them somewhere. they’re already piloting and trialing geological storage in Iceland. They’re also subsidizing this in order to make it happen because many of these things are currently not economically viable, but wanting to gain the experience and have an outlook on what it could look like in 10, 20 years time.

I really encourage that they’re doing that because I feel like if you’re there in 2039. You figure now we still have residual emissions. Okay, let’s plant some trees. So I really enjoy how serious they take it and that they’re really looking into

Jackie De Burca: Now, it’s been a really interesting conversation and actually I feel like I’ve learned an awful lot about Zurich. I would even consider moving there after everything you’ve said. It sounds really’s. Not bad either. Listen, so you’ve done a great job of talking about Zurich and I’m really looking forward to our next [00:19:00] conversation for the episode that will feature the company that you’re working with, Noy Stark.

And that will be the next episode of Constructive Voices. Thank you so much Anna. Thank you. This is Constructive Voices.